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+--- Thread: 'Small' vs. 'Big' Zoo communities: and the Great Porn Debate... (/showthread.php?tid=373)
'Small' vs. 'Big' Zoo communities: and the Great Porn Debate... - 30-30 - 11-13-2018
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2 hours ago, covfefelake said:
A persecuted minority often develops a persecution complex. That doesn't make the persecution any more correct.
Aww, come on, not that lazy soundbite again. We are not, I repeat, are NOT a "persecuted" minority at all. Nobody is coming "to get us" if we don´t draw attention towards us by participating in porn business, are keeping off the neighbour´s pasture and curb our dominant "I gotta tell the world I fuck animals, ´cause only that is real freedom!" attitude. The jews in the Germany after the "Nürnberger Rassengesetze" were persecuted....but we are the ones sticking the yellow stars onto our clothes ourselves and call it "zoo pride" and then act surprised when the authorities aren´t amused. I´ll tell you what, this isn´t persecution mania, it´s a convenient victim complex our community has developed due to the accompanying splendid effect of "I´m a victim of suppression, don´t you dare to criticise anything I do!". Tactics. Bad tactics , done by tactical illiterates perfectly fitting into the Zeitgeist.Real persecution is large quantities of authority forces actively searching for you solely for belonging to a certain group, not your dumb actions putting out evidence yourselves...and to my knowledge, that doesn´t happen. What we see is reactions by authorities when someone is putting out evidence themselves. Don´t "animalporn" , stay off other people´s animals and watch your food trap , then everything will be fine. Anybody telling you different is a hysterical liar with an agenda. I lived more than 20 years with my mare in public boarding stables , yet never had contact with the police or other authority figures. Hundereds of people knew or suspected what was going on between my mare and me, yet no one felt forced to get my ass busted. If we zoos are, as ZETA has claimed with a David´s star with a zeta montaged into it, the "modern day jews", then where are the trains to Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen then?
'Small' vs. 'Big' Zoo communities: and the Great Porn Debate... - WinterGreenWolf - 11-13-2018
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10 hours ago, heavyhorse said:
Makes no difference, the view is the same: loss of liberty, loss of animals' lives, sex offender registry, public ostracism.
This is very true. IMHO It's because of the 'ick' and the 'moral stance' of most people. To the vast majority sex is 'sacred', a 'special human thing', an 'abstract of love'. Which we know is generally bullshit: but the few who call bullshit are outnumbered by the many that assume animals don't 'have sex, they procreate!': of course the assumption in most people's mind being some 'magic signal' that screams 'BABIES!'. To my knowledge humans are the only species that actively knows sex == Procreation.
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7 hours ago, 30-30 said:
WGW, this "inventive" usage of other laws due to the lack of direct "anti zoo" laws isn´t new to me. We had a couple of those in pre 2013 Germany too. I guess that was another reason for "them" to go "all in" by installing "no animal fiddling" laws. But , and here I´m coming back to my usual standpoint regarding laws, you really have to be totally careless and idiotic to end up in front of a judge for "zoophilia" anyway. This is easily avoided by not feeding the porn industry with private clips online, keeping off other peoples´ pastures and watching your mouth. Shouldn´t be too hard IMHO, three easily followable rules. I´d rather place my hope in educating our "community" about these three than in abolishing the "anti zoo" laws , against massive public resistance (...just imagine the headlines... " Land X re-allows animal fucking!"...just take a look at the public outrage when Canada was adjusting their laws and accidentally left a small window open for the bestialists...), against the majority of society. Won´t happen. At least not in the way all those "zoo activists" are imagining it. With the "victims" being biologically unable to walk into the next police station and snitch on you, it´s all dependent on how dilligently the "zoo" is watching his own private info. Silence is golden, especially when it comes to zoophilia. Conspirative mindsets, not loud mouths and drama queens, that´s what keeps the judges away.
This is true, which is, like I said: why I don't do social media, 'PROUD ZOO' everywhere and only discuss with those who bring it up or are curious. Slow, careful, tender steps remember. Society isn't ready for us nor are we ready for them. I also educate the new zoos about the 'trinity' as well: which is why forums like this one are important for us.
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8 hours ago, 30-30 said:
On Pinyan, or "Ken": Too big too fast...well , add too drunk and we´ve got a winner.
Thumbs up for that one man, but that's one hell of a way to 'win'...
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8 hours ago, 30-30 said:
But IMO, Pinyan´s case perfectly illustrates what´s basically wrong with all of this. He became this iconic figure for zoophilia although all evidence points into the opposite direction. A alleged extreme masochist that´s been said to have become bodily numbed due to a motorcycle accident and using passive homosexual intercourse with large animals "to feel something again". On a farm of somebody else. With other peoples´ animals without their knowledge and consent. All prejudices against us "pervo animal fuckers" affirmed. That´s the real sad ending of Pinyan´s story to me. If we only could stop affirming the public over and over again, we´d win a big battle. Not the war, but a big and important battle. If we´d only stop gifting society with endless ammunition, the bullets fired into our direction would inevitable become less and less over time. The only way to get rid of the "anti zoo" laws is to starve them out until someone in the legislation may say "We haven´t had a case of this in ten or twenty years now. Do we still need this law?" But this would demand some discipline from our community, including the beasties...so, screw it and learn to live with the sword of Damocles swinging above our heads. Pinyan = best example why things are as they are.
I knew Ken was drunk, I didn't know he fencehopped (thought it was a Zoo friend's horse? ). I also didn't know he was a Masochist. So he (of course, as most are who end up in the news) didn't really embody what *I* would call a 'Zoophile by my own definitions given in the other thread. Sad really, but as much as I hate to admit it: you are correct. We shoot ourselves in a lot of ways.
I remember a case in Ohio a year or two ago: a man was caught, in his neighbors yard, hands and knees with pants down. He was being mounted by his -neighbor's- German Shepherd, in *broad daylight* I swear, I'm human, but I nearly found a way to lay a fucking egg.. I was dumbfounded that someone could be -that- stupid. Then I remember a lot of the 'community' from places like BF and merely facepalm.
I am still very strict on what I see as 'zoo' and what I do not in some cases. That's why I was passionate and even a bit hostile in my other thread. I feel I owed you a little explanation 30-30. See the thing is my own internal struggles, keeping quiet, not having a *good* source of info barring anatomy, losing my lover to old age at a delicate time in my life: I'm -not- asking for pitty, but it's shaped my view on Zoophilia, and quite roughly, as I've said on my other thread.
Though, it won't happen in my lifetime, I do hope others can learn to treat us, and -any- animal with more kindness, consideration and respect. I'm actually surprised with how many of your points I agree with in this thread. But sadly most have proven true. I'm still 'young' in the eyes of the 'community', but being 31 years old and having learnt a lot about myself the hard way can leave one a bit jaded.. Especially when it's something like this that you can't simply 'talk out' with your family / support network / therapist. That shit wouldn't go well -at all-. Rannoch is a prime example. Though I'm not really entitled to speak on him besides what I've red from him and others as I didn't know him personally and never had the opportunity to speak to him.
'Small' vs. 'Big' Zoo communities: and the Great Porn Debate... - 30-30 - 11-13-2018
I recommend reading the VICE articles on Enumclaw. Although I usually see VICE more in the tradition of Hunter S. Thompson´s "gonzo journalism" that´s mixing facts with non facts for the story´s sake, I believe those two or three articles on Enumclaw, Pinyan and his "friends" have to offer more truth than what´s swirling around both in the "pro zoo" sphere as well as in the "anti zoo" one.
The "pride" of "proud zoo" seems to be solely and exclusively tied to exhibitionism, either for political purposes ("If we´re all outing ourselves, society has no other choice but to legalise it!") or for the "zoo´s" own sake as schock value, extreme special snowflakeism á la bonheur and seeking affirmation in the external world because the internal conflicts couldn´t be solved internally and with themselves. It´s quite sad our community has lowered itself so much and accepted this twisted "pride" and all its repercussions uncontradicted despite people like me warned the community as early as in mid nineties that this would terribly backfire. And the worst: they still believe in this and that it´ll bring "free zoophilia" if only "we" bump our head onto the massive concrete wall of "You fuck animals? And I am supposed to tolerate this? Hell NO!!" for long enough.
Regarding the "open air GShep coitus": Well, "there´s only two things that are infinite, space and human stupidity...and I´m not really sure about space." Albert Einstein [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" title=";)" width="20" /> But I wouldn´t solely blame stupidity here, it reeks more of one of those among us who are deriving their sexual pleasure not from the animal itself, but from the thrill and the taboo. Doing something sexual, even more when it´s illegal and/or frowned upon society, in open public with a high risk of being walked in on accidentally is how these folks are getting their rocks off. It´s only logical that this will go wrong some day, isn´t it? I would bet my coins on this option in the GShep case you mentioned. Thrillseekers and taboobreakers along with shameless and exhibitionistic bestialists in the "Spink ,Aluzky and Co" tradition are who undermine each and every attempt to "educate" the public a priori with their shit... and shockingly, most of our community supports and defends them due to a tribalistic "us versus them" trench fight mentality distortion of their minds perpetuated on almost every single "zoo" platform instead of outright condemning such behaviour as counterproductive and even harming to our cause. Many in the community seem to like shooting their own foots...
Don´t mind our first "hard contact", WGW...I´m German and we Germans aren´t said to be blunt and open instead of being polite for nothing. I´d rather have a million people telling me that I´m an asshole for them right into my face than all this false politeness that´s hiding true feelings behind social conventions. I can distribute punches, so I should be capable to receive some punches, right? [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" title=";)" width="20" /> So, nevermind, you don´t owe me an apology or an explanation.
"I hope others can learn to treat us with more kindness"...I share this hope , but I´m afraid that won´t happen until we ourselves learn to treat us and our orientation with respect first. And regarding Rannoch, I can only say that he may have faced a different life if he´d grown up in Europe. As far as I know, all his problems originated in how the US generally treats "deviants" of our kind. My cow loving zoo friend from North Germany did indeed tell his psychotherapist about his love for cows and pigs without any perils of going to jail and his mother does know about her son´s special orientation as well. I met her a couple of times when she was visiting him and she doesn´t seem to make much of a drama out of it, she´s pretty supportive. In the US, no one bats an eye when a bank robber gets shot in the head by police live on TV in the afternoon, when lots of kiddies watch TV, but when Janet Jackson´s nipple is exposed, it´s a nationwide crisis. In Europe, not even the fanatically religious are frightened of a nipple, but any form of violence is frowned upon. I guess that illustrates the divergence in general attitude between the US and Europe better than anything else. Rannoch´s case doesn´t display a general problem, but a very US specific problem IMHO, one that resonates into all sectors of US society, psychologists, therapeuts, parents, laws etc. pp. You won´t find "sex offender lists" here in Europe...we Europeans think it´s medieval.
'Small' vs. 'Big' Zoo communities: and the Great Porn Debate... - covfefelake - 11-13-2018
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10 hours ago, 30-30 said:
Aww, come on, not that lazy soundbite again. We are not, I repeat, are NOT a "persecuted" minority at all.
I think when laws illegalize your sex life, you've reached my definition for persecution. I'm honestly amazed anyone would try to argue otherwise.
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10 hours ago, 30-30 said:
then where are the trains to Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen then?
Persecution and genocide are different words. You can be legally persecuted without a gas chamber.
'Small' vs. 'Big' Zoo communities: and the Great Porn Debate... - covfefelake - 11-13-2018
Ah, I has double posted.
'Small' vs. 'Big' Zoo communities: and the Great Porn Debate... - 30-30 - 11-13-2018
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21 minutes ago, covfefelake said:
I think when laws illegalize your sex life, you've reached my definition for persecution. I'm honestly amazed anyone would try to argue otherwise.
Persecution and genocide are different words. You can be legally persecuted without a gas chamber.
When a law is basically a "paper tiger" and the one targetted by this law needs to genuinely fuck up themselves to feel the repercussions, the law is practically nonexistent. And there´s a massive difference between prosecution of crimes and persecution. Since the installation of the "anti zoo" law in Germany in july of 2013, not a single person has faced a trial for "zoophilia" without him ticking other boxes like distribution of animal porn or trespassing. The law pretends to be anti zoophilia, but really is a law against fencehopping, illegal porn distribution and general idiocy. In the US, it´s not too different. All this overdramatisation and hyperbole isn´t only plain silly and hysterical, but also a huge factor for making lots and lots of young zoos depressive while it would only take obeying to the three basic laws of self preservation to avoid the imaginary oppression. No one will screw you if you don´t screw yourselves first by talking mindlessly about your sexuality and/or putting out the evidence yourselves for being plucked easily and used against you by authorities. I really wonder why everyone seems so eager to feel a "victim"....oh, I gave the answer to this in one of my previous posts, ooops , my bad. [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" title=";)" width="20" />
Persecution precedes genocide and thus is an integral part of latter. I cannot see active persecution of zoos, neither in Europe nor in the US, only authorities that are forced to react to our shit. This persecution soundbit only serves to make us zoos more important than we are in reality. If we don´t force outsiders to pay attention to us, then everyone gives a flying fuck about "zoophilia". It´s like not wearing a seatbelt in a car and then blame the car industry when you fly through the windshield in a small accident, crippling you for life. That´s what it is, doesn´t matter what you say and how you simplify a complex matter with sloganesque phrases that sound good first, but don´t hold up to any challenge when examined with an open mind that isn´t shackled to the prevalent convenient tribalism. And not only that, the "zoo community" actively encourages its members to not wear a seatbelt because "oppression" and "muh freehdum!"...
'Small' vs. 'Big' Zoo communities: and the Great Porn Debate... - heavyhorse - 11-13-2018
I don't know anyone who takes more words to say something, but your point(s) are 100% spot-on.
'Small' vs. 'Big' Zoo communities: and the Great Porn Debate... - ferritlove - 11-14-2018
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On 11/11/2018 at 7:16 PM, 30-30 said:
... "you aren´t allowed to fart on Easter sunday between midnight and 4.30 AM in Minnesota" type of laws, we Europeans usually laugh.
Hey! Being a Minnesotan myself, I can verify I can and do pass gas legally at all hours of the night. :-)
'Small' vs. 'Big' Zoo communities: and the Great Porn Debate... - heavyhorse - 11-14-2018
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5 hours ago, ferritlove said:
Hey! Being a Minnesotan myself, I can verify I can and do pass gas legally at all hours of the night. :-)
See? That's what 30 meant; as long as you don't do so in a very public way, or post it to youtube, you're golden! [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/biggrin.png[/img]/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" title=":D" width="20" />
'Small' vs. 'Big' Zoo communities: and the Great Porn Debate... - 30-30 - 11-14-2018
Autoflatuphilia nocturnalis... *[img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/ph34r.png[/img]/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" title=":ph34r:" width="20" />