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+--- Thread: The trouble with NOT publicly discussing zoophilia (/showthread.php?tid=496)
The trouble with NOT publicly discussing zoophilia - AmoreBestia - 04-09-2018
Quote:
19 minutes ago, Cynolove693 said:
That wouldn't be a bad thing, it be easier for police to target the real abusers if they made their own community, Id say if a "cleanup" actually happened it would greatly benifit the zoo community as a whole.. Would I go as far as saying it would cause zoophilia to be legalized with just that step, no..
We will have to climb mountains for that to happen, including the elimination of animal porn along with its profits (which beastforum basically runs on) prove to people were not in it just for the sex; and come together and reach common grounds before we can ever convince anyone of anything to get the ball rolling on decriminalization, see all the major issues in the way, it wont be simple let alone easy to do any of these things
And as zoophiles have for decades, they improve their opsec over time and become better at protecting these illicit users and their interests. It's a dark thought but helping law enforcement could mean using the information that the forum gets and selectively sending information about these individuals. And actually, lets say it does happen to pass that beastforum goes bust and all public zoo forums seem vocally against porn, zoophiles as a whole banding together against it... It's still out there getting hits and views elsewhere, by non zoos, and nobody can offer evidence to refuse a claim that this bestiality video on pornhub or whatever clearly got 100,000 views from zoophiles. Beastforum isn't the only place to get animal porn, and it's an industry that transcends zoophilia. If porn ends up being a necessary battle, there isn't any victory to be had because larger, more diversified porn sites will keep at it and keep getting views and revenue. And even if publicly available pornography is purged, the argument will be that zoos trade it in secret in their "900-1000 bestiality networks".
But really, based on what I've seen, not just in conversation but in the larger academic and media landscapes, it boils down to consent and the issues surrounding it. Regardless of whether it's reasonable to expect, opponents to zoophiles care most about that, and that's where most of your issues will arise. Frankly, most people aren't that aware of the animal porn scene and only understand the fundamentals and fundamental arguments surrounding bestiality.
The trouble with NOT publicly discussing zoophilia - AmoreBestia - 04-09-2018
Back to the helping law enforcement through info leaks bit, as much as I'd hate for any community to actually do it, I'll concede that it would make for a very helpful headline.
The trouble with NOT publicly discussing zoophilia - Cynolove693 - 04-09-2018
Quote:
2 hours ago, AmoreBestia said:
And as zoophiles have for decades, they improve their opsec over time and become better at protecting these illicit users and their interests. It's a dark thought but helping law enforcement could mean using the information that the forum gets and selectively sending information about these individuals. And actually, lets say it does happen to pass that beastforum goes bust and all public zoo forums seem vocally against porn, zoophiles as a whole banding together against it... It's still out there getting hits and views elsewhere, by non zoos, and nobody can offer evidence to refuse a claim that this bestiality video on pornhub or whatever clearly got 100,000 views from zoophiles. Beastforum isn't the only place to get animal porn, and it's an industry that transcends zoophilia. If porn ends up being a necessary battle, there isn't any victory to be had because larger, more diversified porn sites will keep at it and keep getting views and revenue. And even if publicly available pornography is purged, the argument will be that zoos trade it in secret in their "900-1000 bestiality networks".
But really, based on what I've seen, not just in conversation but in the larger academic and media landscapes, it boils down to consent and the issues surrounding it. Regardless of whether it's reasonable to expect, opponents to zoophiles care most about that, and that's where most of your issues will arise. Frankly, most people aren't that aware of the animal porn scene and only understand the fundamentals and fundamental arguments surrounding bestiality.
I wasn't suggesting that all porn should be banned, just the porn sections on zoophilia communities; it would improve the appearances of the forums a little bit, (take here for example there's no human/animal section) which could in turn be helpful
(Sex should be private anyways, its an intimate moment and shouldn't be recorded and posted online for some random person to beat off to! That's my opinion on it anyways)
If were trying to keep appearance's good; trying to convince people that we do love animals, posting sexual content of them online isn't gonna help our cause at all, removing the porn sections on zoophilia forums would be a step in the right direction
The trouble with NOT publicly discussing zoophilia - Cynolove693 - 04-09-2018
Quote:
33 minutes ago, AmoreBestia said:
Back to the helping law enforcement through info leaks bit, as much as I'd hate for any community to actually do it, I'll concede that it would make for a very helpful headline.
I'd sure hope this would only be happening if someone is suspected of actual animal abuse; that is the most logical reason for any forum admin, or mods to turn info to police
My biggest point here is we can't be animal lovers and sit quietly to the side while someone else is hurting an animal and do nothing; "the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for a good man to do nothing"
The trouble with NOT publicly discussing zoophilia - AmoreBestia - 04-09-2018
Quote:
Just now, Cynolove693 said:
I'd sure hope this would only be happening if someone is suspected of actual animal abuse; that is the most logical reason for any forum admin, or mods to do so
Likewise. So long as that principle is followed strictly, there is some good that would come of it. It is quite a significant responsibility though,, naturally.
The trouble with NOT publicly discussing zoophilia - caikgoch - 04-09-2018
I can absolutely guarantee you that outing people to the police will be a major disaster. It's been done, several times, and nothing good has ever come of it.
The first problem is defining abuse. Some will say that any sex with an out of heat female is abuse. Others will say that any penetration by a human is abuse.
Then comes revenge. "You outed me so I'm going to out all of you!"
No, we've been there and *REALLY* don't need to go back. The first step towards a better world would be making safe for sane, non-abusive Zoos. Then it would be possible to do something about the sadists without it being a nuclear level option.
The trouble with NOT publicly discussing zoophilia - heavyhorse - 04-09-2018
Quote:
2 hours ago, caikgoch said:
I can absolutely guarantee you that outing people to the police will be a major disaster. It's been done, several times, and nothing good has ever come of it.
"All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again". BSG.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
Thread near bottom of forum. Asshairs. There's only about 745 ways this can go horribly wrong and blow back on everybody. People who think any kind of public spectacle is going to go in our favor, have no understanding whatsoever of public behavior.
The trouble with NOT publicly discussing zoophilia - Eagle - 04-09-2018
Which circles back to the point I made in the OP: If you don't intentionally put out information in a controlled fashion, all that will be there are the uncontrolled public spectacles. Those will be all the public has to judge you.
The trouble with NOT publicly discussing zoophilia - AmoreBestia - 04-09-2018
Quote:
5 hours ago, caikgoch said:
I can absolutely guarantee you that outing people to the police will be a major disaster. It's been done, several times, and nothing good has ever come of it.
The first problem is defining abuse. Some will say that any sex with an out of heat female is abuse. Others will say that any penetration by a human is abuse.
And the best course of action is to attack the egregious, obvious offenders that evidenced actual use of force or violence -- the worst cases so to speak. That's the definition that would be most likely to help law enforcement and the nonhuman animals in that person's possession. I think, though, that it would be important for us to remember that zoobuster and his... exploits were a work of malice, ultimately, and decidedly lacking of that focus. It backfired because he never actually wanted to help zoophiles at large, but hurt the people who he thought wronged him.
Quote:
6 hours ago, caikgoch said:
Then comes revenge. "You outed me so I'm going to out all of you!"
But how would they distinguish getting outed by a tip to the police and bad luck/a neighbor? At any rate, it's likely that the extent of the usable information
Quote:
6 hours ago, caikgoch said:
No, we've been there and *REALLY* don't need to go back. The first step towards a better world would be making safe for sane, non-abusive Zoos. Then it would be possible to do something about the sadists without it being a nuclear level option.
I'll concede here that the elevated risk may not necessarily be worth what benefits there may be, but I also argue it has yet to be done right.
The trouble with NOT publicly discussing zoophilia - heavyhorse - 04-09-2018
The problem is that there is no "Right" in the public perception. Sex with animals = felony conviction. You can try to "feather" it all you want, this= bad; this= good, but there is no finessing it to the extent that it won't be a public spectacle. The entire concept of sex with animals is a public spectacle. You can argue about deep, heartfelt undivided love all you want, the public sees "Animal fucker!!!" The media will be unforgiving, the legislature will take it as sign that they haven't made enough laws, the animals will be executed, and the person making the argument will be run to ground and prosecuted. There is no good outcome to a public service campaign.