+- Zoo Community & Writer's Guild (https://zoowg.org)
+-- Forum: Zoophilia discussions (https://zoowg.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: General Zoo discourse (https://zoowg.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=42)
+--- Thread: When is a dog old enough? (/showthread.php?tid=232)
When is a dog old enough? - Fanta - 09-28-2019
Hi all. Made an account just to ask this question.
When is a dog old enough to engage with sexually? Is a 6 - 8 month old puppy acceptable? I read that dogs (large breeds) don't sexually mature until 2 years old, and don't mentally mature until 2 - 4 years.
I have a zoophile friend on another forum that is sexually engaging with a puppy (the age mentioned) and I am trying to decide if I should cut him off (posted here so he can't see this, lol). It makes me very uncomfortable, as everything I can find says a dog that age is mentally the same as a 10 year old human. But I know many people here are "old pros" and may have different opinions on when they mature. [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/smile.png[/img]/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" title=":)" width="20" /> He is a good friend so I don't want to lose him, so I'm hoping this is "okay", really - that I'm unnecessarily uncomfortable. Just wanted to see what the consensus here is.
When is a dog old enough? - WinterGreenWolf - 09-28-2019
Quote:
15 minutes ago, Fanta said:
Hi all. Made an account just to ask this question.
When is a dog old enough to engage with sexually? Is a 6 - 8 month old puppy acceptable? I read that dogs (large breeds) don't sexually mature until 2 years old, and don't mentally mature until 2 - 4 years.
I have a zoophile friend on another forum that is sexually engaging with a puppy (the age mentioned) and I am trying to decide if I should cut him off (posted here so he can't see this, lol). It makes me very uncomfortable, as everything I can find says a dog that age is mentally the same as a 10 year old human. But I know many people here are "old pros" and may have different opinions on when they mature. [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/smile.png[/img]/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" title=":)" width="20" /> He is a good friend so I don't want to lose him, so I'm hoping this is "okay", really - that I'm unnecessarily uncomfortable. Just wanted to see what the consensus here is.
First of all, what activity are they doing, and what gender is the puppy? Males tend to start displaying sexual interest around six - eight months.. They won't be 'settled' until around 2 years. Now, females should actually pass at least ONE full heat cycle before anything is even remotely attempted..
In the wild: canines can reproduce as young as eight months: especially with some females going in to heat as early as 7 months. If the canine is displaying interest (and, has completed one full heat cycle if female) there's really no harm done IMO.
Now, that being said: I don't recommend really trying too much of anything unless they are mature.
When is a dog old enough? - Fanta - 09-28-2019
The dog is male but I'm unaware of the full extent of what they're doing. Sounds like pretty much everything, though.
"Starting" to show interest isn't enough though - is it? Like at this age this is still a puppy. This puppy is just barely beginning to go through puberty and explore himself. It feels utterly scummy, not to mention rapey, to take advantage of this. The puppy isn't even close to being fully developed in any way, especially not in mind. I have never considered a puppy able to consent, nor seen sentiment they can. But if moods have changed, suppose it may be best for mine to change with them.
Thanks for your reply, looking forward to more.
When is a dog old enough? - heavyhorse - 09-28-2019
Pretty much what WGW said above.
A lot of male animals will start "acting sexual" at a very early age. Ram and goat kids will mount and hump while they are still nursing. Doesn't mean they are actually ready. Keep in mind in nature a young male won't be allowed by the others in his group to breed; the resident male will "educate" him on appropriate behavior, the females mostly won't "stand" for him even in heat.
In my experience (working livestock farm and small-time giant breed dog breeder) they aren't physically mature until 18 - 24 months.
And my gawd make sure he's gotten his puppy shots....
When is a dog old enough? - Fanta - 09-28-2019
Quote:
3 hours ago, heavyhorse said:
Pretty much what WGW said above.
A lot of male animals will start "acting sexual" at a very early age. Ram and goat kids will mount and hump while they are still nursing. Doesn't mean they are actually ready. Keep in mind in nature a young male won't be allowed by the others in his group to breed; the resident male will "educate" him on appropriate behavior, the females mostly won't "stand" for him even in heat.
In my experience (working livestock farm and small-time giant breed dog breeder) they aren't physically mature until 18 - 24 months.
And my gawd make sure he's gotten his puppy shots....
So do you or do you not believe a puppy of this age is old enough for sex? WinterGreenWolf believes it is, from how I interpreted his post, and you say you agree with him. But then you go on to say humping behavior doesn't mean they're ready and that they don't mature until nearly 2 years.
I don't know the individual offline, so I don't know if he's gotten the puppy shots. I assume he has, as he's mentioned going to the vet. I try to talk to him about the dog as little as possible, as the situation makes me deeply uncomfortable.
When is a dog old enough? - WinterGreenWolf - 09-28-2019
Quote:
6 hours ago, Fanta said:
The dog is male but I'm unaware of the full extent of what they're doing. Sounds like pretty much everything, though.
"Starting" to show interest isn't enough though - is it? Like at this age this is still a puppy. This puppy is just barely beginning to go through puberty and explore himself. It feels utterly scummy, not to mention rapey, to take advantage of this. The puppy isn't even close to being fully developed in any way, especially not in mind. I have never considered a puppy able to consent, nor seen sentiment they can. But if moods have changed, suppose it may be best for mine to change with them.
Thanks for your reply, looking forward to more.
I would like to add something to what I said above as well: every dog is different like every person is different.. Some mature faster, some slower.. There's really no 'fixed way' to tell for sure. It's also worth noting that 'age tests' and 'intelligence tests' can place canines at a massive disadvantage when the numbers are concerned as the tests aren't designed for them, they were designed for humans.
Quote:
5 hours ago, heavyhorse said:
Pretty much what WGW said above.
A lot of male animals will start "acting sexual" at a very early age. Ram and goat kids will mount and hump while they are still nursing. Doesn't mean they are actually ready. Keep in mind in nature a young male won't be allowed by the others in his group to breed; the resident male will "educate" him on appropriate behavior, the females mostly won't "stand" for him even in heat.
In my experience (working livestock farm and small-time giant breed dog breeder) they aren't physically mature until 18 - 24 months.
And my gawd make sure he's gotten his puppy shots....
Yeah, pretty much this.. Let's not forget, sex for the 'younger ones' will be possible, 100% without harm: just awkward as hell as they are trying to learn the 'mechanics' of it all. Never forget, a non-humans' perceptions and outlets on such matters are VERY different to our own..
Quote:
1 hour ago, Fanta said:
So do you or do you not believe a puppy of this age is old enough for sex? WinterGreenWolf believes it is, from how I interpreted his post, and you say you agree with him. But then you go on to say humping behavior doesn't mean they're ready and that they don't mature until nearly 2 years.
I don't know the individual offline, so I don't know if he's gotten the puppy shots. I assume he has, as he's mentioned going to the vet. I try to talk to him about the dog as little as possible, as the situation makes me deeply uncomfortable.
Hopefully he's done all the 'right puppy things' such as basic training, vet care, etc..
I know it sounds 'back and forth' but what I, and HH then said are pretty much the only answers really 'fitting' here (IMO, of course). I saw you mention consent, remember consent for them is different: it possesses different contexts and weights.. You also have to remember in the wild, these sort of behaviors would either..
A) Lead to actual reproduction (even at an early age)
B) Are practice for reproduction in a competitive environment where survival is priority #1.
Sort of a sum-up.. I'd say tell him he probably *shouldn't* be engaging in anything beyond a simple hump or two.. Maybe not even that depending on the exact age of the dog.. The major caveat here being that it depends on how fast the dog's maturing, how comfortable he is with said contact, etc..
As an aside, I never really recommend penetrating a canine anally.. You have to be very careful with that, it can make a mess, and it can cause damage.. That's another topic though.
When is a dog old enough? - silverwolf1 - 09-28-2019
My own opinion is that the dog is not sexually AND emotionally mature before 1 1/2 to 2 years. They can indeed engage in heavy sexual behavior before this, but that doesn't mean they should. The dog doesn't know not to go beyond learning about his/ her body and hormones slowly, but the human ought to be responsible enough to control his lust ( because it certainly isn't anything "zoophile") and not let the dog do so. This "in nature" stuff is crap. The Domestic Dog does not live in nature and is behaviorally different from wild canines. Unless you're referring to Huskies, most won't even survive & reproduce "in nature".
sw
When is a dog old enough? - caikgoch - 09-28-2019
There is one thing that must be absolutely clear. Humping is a reflex and can be triggered almost from birth but has nothing to do with sex. If you think he is interested in sex because he humps, you are mistaken. His penis will not be fully developed and when the knot begins to grow, it will hurt. Mother Nature doesn't care because he may be his bloodline's only chance but he will. He will grow up associating sex with pain.
When is a dog old enough? - heavyhorse - 09-28-2019
Quote:
3 hours ago, Fanta said:
So do you or do you not believe a puppy of this age is old enough for sex? WinterGreenWolf believes it is, from how I interpreted his post, and you say you agree with him. But then you go on to say humping behavior doesn't mean they're ready and that they don't mature until nearly 2 years.
What I said appears to have been interpreted in various ways by various people. It is not my intent to argue. I stand by my earlier post.
Thank you.
When is a dog old enough? - DingoJay - 09-28-2019
When I was young and clueless (20-ish) I got my first "my" dog. He was male. At quite an early age, he began humping and displaying a rather impressive erection, including a knot. Well before puberty. Of course, I encouraged this behavior and gave him a "helping hand" on a frighteningly regular basis. He never seemed antsy or distressed while I masturbated or sucked him; he always stayed right with me until he was finished.
It was all great fun until he got about halfway through puberty. He became quite aggressive, started marking in the house several times a day and picking nasty fights with the other male dog in the family. I was still living at home, and things got bad enough that it nearly came down to "Get rid of that dog or get out!"
As a last resort, I ended up having my pup neutered at about 8 months. I had been engaging in sexual behavior with the older male dog for several years without any undesirable side effects, but he was 3-4 years old when we started that. My parents had him neutered shortly after my pup was done. It took a little less than a year for the hormones to wear off and the bad behavior stopped and the boys became friends again. From what I've read and heard, I got lucky.
This is not a unique situation. After I got on the 'Net, I chatted with a guy who started having sex with a very young, male Rottweiler pup. The exact same scenario played out, in spite of the fact that I had warned the guy about what would happen if he continued. Around 7-8 months, the pup started peeing in the house and fighting with the other (male) dog. He gave the pup away, he was passed from home to home until somebody had him snipped.
Hopefully, someone can learn from my mistakes and not shit-can a nice pup because of their own out-of-control lust. I've had several dogs in the past 40-odd years since I got that first pup, but I have learned to keep my hands to myself for at least 1-1/2 to 2 years.
BTW, I continued having sex with the two neutered boys. They even encouraged me to do so and everything worked as designed, except there were no more fluids.