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My experience as a Zoo, Inclusive v. Exclusive, personal insight and more. - WinterGreenWolf - 10-13-2018
Hey everyone, so it's WIntergreen's ramble time: yay... [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/biggrin.png[/img]/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" title=":D" width="20" /> This isn't a debate, but it is a long post: had I had a topic to debate I would have posted this in 'Essays'.
*FIRST AND FOREMOST*: This is -not- an attack thread, I am not trying to strip your ideals from you or make you feel or look like shit. These are my own experiences, and opinions on the whole subject matter of animal lovers, zoos, bestiality, etc.. Remember that these are personal opinions, morals and views. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has them and most of them kinda stink.. I will be mentioning encounters and even some instances of run-ins with 'not so nice' people but i will *not* namedrop: this forum is not for personal attacks and I'm not that low. With that out of the way, let's get started.
I apologize for the formatting: I'm still learning some of this forum software's features and honestly, a lot of flashy / over-formatted text kind of gets annoying to me: what can I say, I'm old-school...
-First steps, and some background --
Interestingly enough, when I was a young'n I never really liked animals: I could get along with cats, but myself and canines never really clicked. Parents had a lot of 'little, yappy' dogs (which, I obviously would never be mean to, but I don't prefer in the slightest), and most of my family I realize now didn't / don't really know shit about animals. More or less seeing them as living robots in some cases. Being severely vision-impaired only made things worse too.
All of this started to change as I lost some pretty significant family members to terminal illness, I found comfort in the furry little creatures I could stand to be around but I was still mostly indifferent on the whole thing, that is: until I met, and grew up with 'him'. A family member had received a German Shepherd pup (male) for his birthday: my only thought was 'ugh, here we go again...' but for the life of me I couldn't resist the adorableness, I found myself spending time with him, playing etc... and genuinely having fun with him. He was sent off to training classes and whatnot (was a working dog, I won't say what kind for safety sake) and i still was somewhat indifferent.
I then lost another family member at the age of twelve (two years apart after the first) from a massive heart attack. I had to pick up and move homes to my family whom owned the shepherd. Now at night he was a 'house dog' and during the day was allowed to roam the property and exercise / go to work, I was nocturnal (and still am) so our time together was at night. I'd stay up watching TV and he'd usually come sit down near me. I'd never really pay much mind, only giving a pet or two then absently going about my business.
I started to notice though, after all his training and time with him just how dynamic he was: now intelligent and sort of 'knowing' he was. His personality was incredible, especially for his breed: calm, collected, smart and loyal for sure, very loving to top it all off. We grew closer and closer as months progressed. Now around the age of Thirteen or so I'd 'discovered' myself, as it were.. The interesting thing was, due to me enjoying a lot of nature documentaries and even seeing a few sex-ed films and reading nursing literature, I knew the body and how it worked at that age pretty well: the striking thing though, having sneaked and seen a lot of porn mags, all my fantasies involved animals. Every last one.
Well myself and the sheppy's 'first encounter' was by accident more or less, me being naughty and him deciding to join in on the fun (no, I'm not going into detail as this is not the forum for that, besides most of you probably know where this is headed anyways...), I never felt revolted, ashamed or uncomfortable. Being on a farm I definitely knew what he was after and it excited me pretty good. The proplem is I really didn't know the mechanics a year or so later until Internet access was available. So needless to say my first left me a bit sore but none the worse for wear (no, I didn't knot...). The point this is trying to make is, that it all felt natural to me. I never felt dirty or disgusted. Could it be 50 / 50, nature v nurture? I'm sure, but either way I was excited, I enjoyed it and he seemed to as well. The thing is, I really started to open up, to play with him more and grow very close. So much so he'd always wait for me to come home with a happy whine and wagging tail. He'd trail me upstairs and all around, want to play and bring toys: and at night when no one else was around, he was smart enough to 'ask for a little naughty time': which I was all too happy to provide.
-- Internal battle, insults and very dark places. --
So fast-forward a bit, I now have internet access: I've started to study anatomy and mating rituals, to great success. I find out others are interested int he 'same thing' and learn what Zoophilia actually is, most describing it as a deep love (often even to a physical degree) of an animal: score, fits me perfect! A couple of problems though, I was young and dumb, and like most early teens I had a love of porn: I've seen shit that shouldn't be seen involving animals too, all the big names which I would learn didn't give two shits for their partner (Ms. Beast, Cupcake, etc.. Sorry, I had to namedrop thoes as they were the 'big wigs' in zoo porn, along with places like Zoo Skool). I also found out people from all walks, including Furries hated (and still hate) us with a passion. I was called monster, told to 'run the race' (slit your wrists), 'suck off a shotgun instead of your dog': you name it, i've been called / told to do it. I've lost friends over it too, I just couldn't see how something so apparently harmless could be treated with such virulent hatred.
That, caused me to be very depressed: and to even try and distance myself from my partner, even though he wasn't honestly having it.. He still wanted to be just as close as always: I swear animals have more heart than all of us put together at times..We did continue, I pushed through it and blocked the major negativity out: my partner passing away from old age a few years in to my own mental battle, I don't think to this day I've ever cried so much and so hard over a loss: for two days I was just numb to the world.
The depression really hit after that, thoughts of 'monster', 'rapist', 'shitbag' all resurfacing after his death: I never attempted, but I was tempted to end it all honestly. I was able to eventually overcome though, my reflection on all of our good memories was what sort of pulled me up too: I finally said 'fuck other peoples' opinions, they don't mean shit to me when I have personal experiences to back it up. To prove I'm no rapist or some sick idiot.'.
Thing is though, once I started opening up to my new friends (who surprisingly willing to accept me for me, and even inquire about it..), I started to remember all the 'animal porn' I'd seen and a bit of a duality struck me: I realized the good and bad sides, the fact that the shit porn was all people saw, and some was abusive! I knew the sources of the stigmata that marks most all of us in the public eyes. So since then I've been encouraging both close friends and the curious to ask me questions and discuss the topic: to a good bit of success actually. That's one of my goals, to try and help the public perception even though we ourselves even still have a lot of hill to climb. I'll never put myself or others at risk for it though, there's better hills to die on an not have your life ruined.
-- Exclusive v. Inclusive: yes you can have both! --
I've tried the whole dating scene with a variety of different people from different places, and it's just not for me: I've learned I'm an exclusive zoo, meaning animals are my only attraction. This does make things harder obviously, but that's how it is: I have spoken to enough people and seen enough 'human action', and it all is just 'bleh' to me. honestly. Maybe, there's like a one-in-a-billion chance of someone 'for me', but in human terms I doubt it.
I do think it's alright to have an inclusive Zoo relationship: provided some conditions are met. Both partners take virtually equal priority, and both humans know the animal involved well, as in care: anatomy etc.. all the shit an exclusive should know and the basic zoophile ramble / creed. Know your critter and all that. I don't really have a lot of opinion on this topic honestly, but I will say this: I see my animal relationships, even the sexless ones (as I have now with a neutered rescue German Shepherd I help care for) as most humans would see a relationship with their husband / wife / S.O.
Being an exclusive does require a bit of compartmentalization and care to not anthropomorphize or over-anthropomorphize your partners. It's easy to get carried away, but just remember they are not humans: they don't use the same sense of imagining that we have, nor to they place the same value on emotional state or social structure, they'r emerely different. Forums like this, my friends, my interests in sciences and hobbies all tickle my 'intellectual pickle', I'm not starving my brainpower to be more 'primitive' or anything of that sort. However, my emotional side, and their releases are more primal, and more relatable to an animal, same with my attractions. I'm very misanthropic in a lot of cases, especially with the actions of people these days.
--- Zoophilia, Bestiality, and Zoosadism: one doesn't belong at all, two are both same and different... --
So, I absolutly -hate- it when people say someone is a 'Zoophiliac' or 'commited zoophilia' or even the 'he does zoophilia with his dog' bullshit: to those people, get a FUCKING dictionary! Sorry but it has to be said, Zoophilia is merely a Paraphilia: not a disorder, not an action, it's a deep, often 'abnormal' love of an animal. Be it physical, emotional, sexual or all three at once. That's it, that's all that Zoophilia is. In my opinion this problem comes from two factors: zoophiles being unwilling, or more likely unable to speak out against the usage of the term: and the dirty marketing of the porn industry using it as a shock term to sell their wares and make it sound less 'gross'.
Bestiality is the action, the doing, the sucking of doggie-dong: that is what you mean when you are talking the actual sexual act with an animal. You can be a zoophile who never has sex with an animal, or a zoo who does (myself for instance, and I -so- wish I had an active partner again.. I miss the sort of 'primal touch', the sort of direct bond and care-free contact of it all, Especially since it does require a good deal of intimate trust in a lot of cases..), you can also be a normal person, who commits / performs Bestiality with no attraction at all: simply desperate and horny, or even just enjoying the power of it all. This I cannot stand, sadly it exists: and most of the people who are just in to the 'beasty side' don't really care who has, or in what condition, or where they get their partners from, again part of the problem. Animals in most cases aren't exclusive or really romantic: they are hedonistic, do what feels good because it feels good. But I see it as the person's responsibility to see that they enjoy themselves and desire the bonding nature of it.
Now, ugh, Zoosadism: this one is going to be short and sweet.. This is the torture of an animal, for pleasure and pleasure only. These are the people who I wouldn't want to meet or whom wouldn't want to meet me. This is just as low as it gets in my book, same tier as grooming and manipulating a child for sex: actually a little worse.. These, are the cases you 'see on TV', that appear on the 6pm news. This is the single biggest problem we as zoos can face in my opinion are these top-notch assholes. It's not the only problem but it has to be the biggest. Hell some state's laws IMHO are -because- of some zoo-sadist cases: 'The Florida Goat Strangler' being one of them. Now in a lot of places it's not only considered animal cruelty to have bestial contact with an animal, it's a sex offense too. This should -never- belong, or be accepted in any way shape or form in a zoo community: and anyone who says 'you can't tell what's sadism and what's not' os so full of shit it should sprout from their ears, you can certainly tell if an animal is in distress or has been in major physical or mental duress by their actions: even in a new environment. The second these people are spotted they should be outright slammed on their arse and the door shut in their face, if you are a sadist who enjoys an animal in pain: you are everything but welcomed around me.
-- Current affairs, and my hopes for the future. --
So as it stands now, I currently live with family: I also don't have an active partner but I do have a pair of canines I love very much and spend time with every day. I hope to remedy both situations in the future. [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/smile.png[/img]/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" title=":)" width="20" /> I am of course always open to discussion and hope that any non-zoos who may be reading this, or any curious speak up. Though there's no 'marriage rights' or 'zoo rights' bullshit that really needs addressing (we have all the civil rights we need, laws are a problem, but P.R. is our biggest enemy) my hopes are to at least change some public opinion, spark discussion, or even give some insight as to what it's like to be one of us.
-- Comments, opinions, insights, or wamt me to fuck off? [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/tongue.png[/img]/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" title=":P" width="20" /> --
Please do speak up, that's actually why I posted this long-ass thing. More to get my thoughts out there and see what others (zoo and not) think of it. I'm not looking for hours of debate topics, just something to sort of get my personal experiences and viewpoints in to the collective and provoke some thoughts.
Yes, It's long, and I'm very sorry.. Hee, but hey: things happen. I just hope the board is happy with me posting all this shit and that I'm alright in this section.
- Also, the things I mention about myself, while purposefully vague are one-hundred-percent truth, I have no desire to fabricate for attention nor do I want to lie and make us look worse. These are my honest rambles and experiences on the subject, of the lifestyle and what it means to me: and on a lot of the fine details folks seem to miss or gloss.
My experience as a Zoo, Inclusive v. Exclusive, personal insight and more. - covfefelake - 10-14-2018
Quote:
19 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:
Zoophilia, Bestiality, and Zoosadism: one doesn't belong at all, two are both same and different.
Someone needs to cook up a simple Venn Diagram for this. There is overlap, sometimes, but it should be a simple one. Thanks for this exceptionally simple and easy to understand explanation. I'm well aware all may not agree, but to me, it clicks and I like it.
My experience as a Zoo, Inclusive v. Exclusive, personal insight and more. - WinterGreenWolf - 10-14-2018
Yeah, Zoophilia is a surprisingly complex thing too: least in my experience. It's sexual but doesn't have to be: it's not purely a 'nurtured' concept, meaning you don't judt 'decide' to be a zoo outright in most cases. If that were true exclusives wouldn't exist..
It's misunderstood, it overlaps with the act of Bestiality itself, it's hard to 'come out' with: without being a pariah... Or outright arrested.
It doesn't help that folks sometimes see animals as walking teddy bears or machines, they're very dynamic and complex, mammals, just like us. It took me forever to understand that and I was -forced- to internally once I realized I was an exclusive.
By the way, I'm not the most articulate person: obviously, but to the critical or curious: ask me questions. I'll try and answer to the best of my ability or simply say I don't know.
Glad my topic or a point in it has acquired some interest.
My experience as a Zoo, Inclusive v. Exclusive, personal insight and more. - Danelove - 10-16-2018
So by your definition, I would be a zoophile because I like to snuggle, and my other half is simply turned on by the act of my giving pleasure to my Great Dane.
My experience as a Zoo, Inclusive v. Exclusive, personal insight and more. - caikgoch - 10-16-2018
Don't get too hung up on labels. There is a clear case where the human endures for the benefit and pleasure of the animal and a clear case where the human uses the animal as a self warming masturbatory aid but most of the world lives somewhere in the gray middle. That's how most relationships work. Just balance the give and take.
My experience as a Zoo, Inclusive v. Exclusive, personal insight and more. - heavyhorse - 10-16-2018
Yes. What's comfortable is way more important than putting a label on anything or anyone.
My experience as a Zoo, Inclusive v. Exclusive, personal insight and more. - 30-30 - 10-16-2018
"Don´t get too hung up on labels"... made me laugh ´cause it´s such an infantile statement from the nation of user friendly whatever. Can anybody tell me why it´s always just a one way street? I mean, when I tell someone he is not a zoophile, then all of a sudden, I see 99% of the community totally being hung up on the z-label. But I guess that motto " only practice what you preach if it´s useful and convenient to yourself" is indeed deeply engrained in many, especially in the "zoo" community...
My experience as a Zoo, Inclusive v. Exclusive, personal insight and more. - covfefelake - 10-16-2018
Quote:
5 hours ago, caikgoch said:
Don't get too hung up on labels. There is a clear case where the human endures for the benefit and pleasure of the animal and a clear case where the human uses the animal as a self warming masturbatory aid but most of the world lives somewhere in the gray middle. That's how most relationships work. Just balance the give and take.
Labels typically label poles or extremes. That's why I said a Venn Diagram would be useful. You don't fit any given label to a perfect tee, 90% of the time.
My experience as a Zoo, Inclusive v. Exclusive, personal insight and more. - Danelove - 10-16-2018
Quote:
2 hours ago, covfefelake said:
Labels typically label poles or extremes. That's why I said a Venn Diagram would be useful. You don't fit any given label to a perfect tee, 90% of the time.
Uhhh...I'm largely worried from a post elsewhere that I'm harming my boy in some way as opposed to having fun with him. I don't need a venn diagram for that.
My experience as a Zoo, Inclusive v. Exclusive, personal insight and more. - covfefelake - 10-17-2018
Quote:
5 hours ago, Danelove said:
Uhhh...I'm largely worried from a post elsewhere that I'm harming my boy in some way as opposed to having fun with him. I don't need a venn diagram for that.
I meant to represent the condition. You may not need one, but they work well to model phenemena that often interlap or cross over each other. If your worried you are harming your boy, you may be falling out of the zoophilia group and I'd advise you to stop. I'd hope most would.
PS: I am not a zoophile or bestialist, and am approaching this from a scientific perspective.