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The trouble with NOT publicly discussing zoophilia
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04-08-2018, 12:36 PM
Quote: You keep a running blog/diary with someone trusted to release it after you pass. Something I started back in the old ZD days. 
04-08-2018, 12:53 PM
I'm not going to say either side of this debate is right or wrong, I don't think there is one correct answer on the question of how to approach this problem. What I will say is that we're not alone in fighting battles to continue contact with animals in any form. I can see from my years in purebred dogs that that area is under serious attack from animal rights groups and government alike (spurred on by the AR groups and a desire to be "seen to be doing the right thing"). We are having the same debates there as we are here - do we speak up or run for cover. I think we have much to learn as a community by watching that battle and those of of others and what tactics actually work, or at least those that cause the least possible damage. So with that in mind, I'll leave this video here...it's worth the 30 minutes invested. Yes, I think scientists who do research with on animals are probably *almost* as hated as we are. Almost... <div> <iframe allowfullscreen="true" frameborder="0" height="360" src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/191027408?app_id=122963" title="Animal Models - Cindy Buckmaster, Baylor College of Medicine" width="640"></iframe> </div> 
04-08-2018, 01:41 PM
Thing is that in order to run a rally and produce information and discussion someone with a good charisma and eye to the public has to give that information, nevertheless, the problem is that it is simply too dangerous for anyone to show their face to the world, even if such person is not zoo even. And the thing is guys, doesn't matter, even if any of you guys here tried it, you'd give a bad rep to the zoo community, these people, the news people are experts at turning things the way they can make sure they will spin the controversy in a way that makes them look good. 
04-08-2018, 04:08 PM
This "End of Life zoos should come out to the public" idea is sooo ingenious... /s Well, I know of one particular "EoL zoo" who wrote a book I usually refer to as "bullshit bible for animal fuckers", he alienated society even more with an appearance on the Jerry Springer show that wasn´t even aired on Tv. It´s not whether the "zoo" going public hasn´t "something to lose by going public" that should determine the legitimacy of that move, but whether he actually has something TO GIVE to society, can establish contact and connection with the "unjust" and "hateful" normals. It would also help to have a consistent message, not one that could be shrugged off as deliberate rants of a pervert trying to justify his perversions. Example? Here you go: Zoophile: " Zoophilia is about deep emotional love of animals" Outsider: " Ahem...but you´re aware of all that animal porn clearly showing abusive conduct, mares bound and cornered, dogs kept on leashes to control them etc...." Z: "yeah, but that´s porn. Porn isn´t representative of zoophilia." O: "Then why is it commonly called "zoo porn" as an abbreviation for zoophilic pornography even by your own community? And why is it no one has to search for long to find a "zoo" who´s straight up defending almost any type of animal fuck films and so many remaining completely silent about the abusive conduct shown in these flics? I thought you were all about the animals in the first place?" Z: "Well, no community is entirely homogenic. Opinions on different elements of zoophilia largely differ among us. O: "How´s that? I thought zoophilia was about animals first. How can anyone of you guys be content with animal abuse in your name then? " Z: "Well, let´s call it a dilemma we haven´t figured out a solution for yet." O: "Okay, then switch to another issue: fencehopping. What about that?" Z: "Some of us claim to love the animals they fencehop on..." O: "So you´re trying to tell me that you "fall in love" with an animal you don´t even know the name of? Let alone care enough about it to not unintentionally cause harm?" Z: "Uuuhh...." O: "And what about the obvious total lack of a vision of how zoos , non zoos and animals can achieve a balanced and shared habitat without causing trouble and annoy society with animal fuckery? What about the issues inevitably brought up by the commonly propagated "legal zoophilia" narrative? How can anyone of us be sure that you aren´t just talking the nice talk when you´re public, but mutate into an animal raping sex monster behind closed doors? Z: " A few of us propose some sort of regulated zoophilia under the neutral supervision of learned and trained experts able to identify psychological and physical harm in the animals" O: "Yeah, sounds like a good idea. At least that would make it possible for Joe Average to have enough confidence in such relationships and the maintained wellbeing of the animals involved..." Z: "But in our community, such ideas don´t gain much traction. People want their freedom." O: "Freedom? To me, this looks like trying to avoid consequences for one´s own wrongdoings. Without any corrective for detrimental "zoo" relationships, We, the society, will totally have to rely on your words alone. We have that already and look what the results of that are. Spink, Mr Hands, fencehoppers roaming the fields for easy prey literally terrorising entire regions and traumatising the owners of their "loves"..." Z: " But..." O: "NO but! You cannot expect society to sheepishly accept all the wrongdoings your kind does. This needs to be solved first, before we even can think of talking about decriminalising zoophilia. You simply can´t expect society to cope with intolerable acts that affect society. I´m surely one of those who see how you guys are under pressure, but the way out isn´t as simple as just demanding your "freedom" while you totally neglect the bads done in your name." Z: " Legit concerns, but in our community, it´s hard to open the majority up for reasonable discourse without partishanship and self centeredness...." O: "Well, and you guys actually believe we should hand over the animals for you to fuck...give their fate into the hands of a group that isn´t even rational enough to establish a halfway objective discourse about their orientation? You expect us to trust a bunch of people with animals who apparently are interested in themselves and their own personal needs above anything else?" Z: "Hey, we´re not all like this. Let me explain..." O: "If you´re not "all like this", why do you "genuine guys" have so much problems to distance yourselves from the more toxic elements in your community? Why were these toxic elements even accepted as a part of your community at all?" Z: "Look, we are a small minority and need every voice talking in our favour." O: "Even when these voices harshly violate your ideals of mutual love with animals? I thought you were about animals first? I would expect you guys to stand back from putting yourselfves and your desires above animal welfare and ideals...why?" Z: "Can´t really answer that. Maybe some of us aren´t so much into animals as they want to make themselves believe it. " O: " What you´re basically saying here is that society has to cope with and tolerate all the shit you guys are doing, are tolerating , are complacent with. Well, my friend, that´s not gonna happen. You have to present me and all the other outsiders a stringent vision of a "zoo tolerant" world that not only you "zoophiles" , but the society AND the animals can live with. It´s you whose duty it is to give a viable alternative, one that solves at least the majority of underlying issues with "legal zoophilia." Z: "Yeah, I admit this." O: "So you need to sort out your own community first, have to make sure that your ideals aren´t quickly sacrificed for "animal ass" first. And you also have to realise that unsupervised zoophilia fundamentally goes against government´s duty to look after the animals. " Z: "Well, fuck...I guess we have to clean up our own terrain first" O: "Yes, and don´t forget to put your heart where your mouth is. How about creating initiatives against animal exploitation by animal porn? How about joining society in its fight against fencehoppers without any apologetic tendencies?" Z: "Well, we could do that, but...many community members would object such initiatives as "intolerant"..." O: "Then sort out that shit in your community first! It´s not tolerance if you just turn a blind eye on elementary issues, that´s called apathy and complacency. Maybe you guys need to find out what tolerance really means first..." Z: "Uh, I think you´re somehow right, but doing so would demand fighting against massive opposition in our community." O: "Well, then everything remains as it is. Before I will accept even one animal as "collateral damage", I´ll take "unjustly convicted zoos" collateral damage any time. Are you guys really so sure about your credo of "the animals always come first". To me, it doesn´t look like this at all. So, fix this shit of yours first. If you´ve done that, you can come back and we´ll continue talking about more tolerance towards zoophilia." Z: "Shit...." 
04-09-2018, 12:14 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-09-2018, 12:23 AM by AmoreBestia.)
Quote: I literally said in the same paragraph that they should publish sane literature and be well spoken, so I'm not sure why you thought this added to the conversation. And regarding your example, I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. That's one person with weak personal alignments that, conveniently, didn't once mention that most animal porn isn't shot for the benefit of zoophiles but 'normies' themselves, never mentioned that many zoophiles themselves completely abstain from IRL animal pornography for the very purpose of keeping ad revenue away from those studios, didn't voice their personal convictions on the matter as a framework for their perspective, never once asked for or provided sources for claims, and, if your goal was to create a representative that encompassed generalities that can be applied to the majority, failed to recognize that honest public speech on the matter is critical in the long term as well as a popular perspective, and on top of that allowed the conversation to be completely overtaken by a single issue which doesn't represent the larger moral standing of zoophiles. That wasn't a well spoken representative, that was a character that you made toothless in the conversation because you disagreed with the zoophile you manufactured. It's not an example, it's a story written solely for your benefit. Also, your example only represents the dynamic of a personal conversation, not interviews, and certainly not the larger politics surrounding a published work like an essay or memoir. 
04-09-2018, 12:33 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-09-2018, 12:51 AM by Cynolove693.)
Quote: This ^^^ Something also worth mentioning is zoosadist's are far and few, most zoophiles do actually care about their animals well being, I however do agree with some points 30:30 was trying to make Specifically the fact that there is abuse out their and not many people speak out against it (don't believe me take a trip to beastforum; which I may add is a pretty relevant example being as its the largest community out there; go to the porn section, eventually you'll run across it) ive even seen so called "zoos" comment postively to that shit; for example: "your girls got a nice pussy" or "he's got a big dick" when its a puppy.. what makes it even worse is the forum had rules against posting abusive material, yet it most of the time remains on the site, untouched.. (I even been banned from there for speaking out against such material, goes to show you the kind of people the mods are there) To some it up I agree with what 30:30 is trying to say, in order for society to accept zoophilia we'd have to weed out the wrongdoers from our community, whether they like us doing so or not, but it wouldn't be just here, it would be all "zoo" communities.. Which I don't see happening, same with zoophilia ever becoming legal
04-09-2018, 12:53 AM
<sarcasm> "Yeh, you can't trust Zoos around your animals just like you can't trust Gays around your children. They're all a bunch of psycho rapists." Of course the truth is that 96% of rapists are heterosexual males so I guess that's who you really need to watch out for. </sarcasm> Actually, most people are just like most people. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with inclination to violence or predatory behavior. We do need to sound like rational human beings but to start I think we need to choose our venues carefully. That's how the Gay folks did it. We need to talk with more people like Jesse Bering and avoid the sensationalists.
04-09-2018, 01:03 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-09-2018, 01:09 AM by Cynolove693.)
Now onto the trouble with publicly speaking about zoophilia; since I believe each aspect of a situation should be thought over.. The main issue with speaking out publicly is obvious; you take the risk of going to prison, the right to free speech is out the window really at that point.. (We have a right to free speech, but not if your admitting to a illegal lifestyle) the other really big issue is a lot of people, and I mean a outnumbering amount of people are disgusted by the mere thought of us having sex with animals. Its not even an issue of if we love them or not, people have a problem with the sexual acts we do with them; non-zoos dont care if its normally not abusive; they will still claim abuse no matter what, its like the witch hunts "if she floats she's a witch, if she drowns she's not", its the fact we are doing something thier uncomfortable with; we could give them dead proof of the fact that we care for our animals and love them, but minds wont be changed, not of a practice that has been frowned upon for 100s of years; as soon as the pants are dropped, so is the gavel
04-09-2018, 01:09 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-09-2018, 01:10 AM by AmoreBestia.)
Quote: On the topic of 'cleaning up' communities, there is a bit of a logistical issue here. Let's say beastforum reforms and starts removing these users. Now you have a pool of a few hundred, maybe a few thousand, users displaced, a few being tech savvy, that make their own community with (potentially) even less rules and more censorship of dissenting opinions. Only difference is, they're even further from our control.
04-09-2018, 01:20 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-09-2018, 01:40 AM by Cynolove693.)
Quote: That wouldn't be a bad thing, it be easier for police to target the real abusers if they made their own community, Id say if a "cleanup" actually happened it would greatly benifit the zoo community as a whole.. Would I go as far as saying it would cause zoophilia to be legalized with just that step, no.. We will have to climb mountains for that to happen, including the elimination of animal porn along with its profits (which beastforum basically runs on) prove to people were not in it just for the sex; and come together and reach common grounds before we can ever convince anyone of anything to get the ball rolling on decriminalization, see all the major issues in the way, it wont be simple let alone easy to do any of these things |
