Are we our own worst enemy?

[Andrew-R]

....<a data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/profile/1910-heavyhorse/?do=hovercard&referrer=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.zoowg.net%252Ftopic%252F722-are-we-our-own-worst-enemy%252F%253Fpage%253D2%2526tab%253Dcomments" href="<___base_url___>/profile/1910-heavyhorse/" title="Go to heavyhorse's profile">heavyhorse</a>

30-30,

caikgoch, well, thanks of course for your replies...still, you realize this horseback riding today is moneymaking thing, with all this implies?


It should be no surprize for you I come to this rejectance of horseriding not alone on my own, but by comparing my own captive dolphin story and what people here were saying about reality vs dream of horseriding .... well, we changed a lot in all those years .... I remember reading some horse stories here (in russian) yet by now I think they are gone ..... https://web.archive.org/web/200510260046...:80/forum/



thing is, Nevzorov for example come way from usual horserider to someone who seriously opposed a lot of accepted shit in this horse circle ... at quite advance age. But then, everyone is not complete, we all are Work In Progress (hopefully), so ..even if Nevzorov himself compared some of this horseusing with ..well, bestiality - I don't follow him completely on this ... stilll ... exactly because horseriding thing is so ...everywhere, accepted, demanded, self-propogating ...well, may be even attempt at putting this legacy aside is useful (at some moment Nevzorov was unsure if he want to continue some horseriding, even in minimal version, or not ..and decided not ... during this period a lot of his followers were greatly confused. I sort of suggested, trying to make sense out of what was said previously, you probably can ride horse ..if..it really somewhat helpful _for horse_.


And may be I should repeat it here, but not as something closing question forever but ...way of saying about something else, too? Like, my dog for example ...when he demanded to go out every hour or so ..I definitely wished him to be able to overcome this surprisingly powerful resistance to  shit / pee in house ... because..waking up every so often make me acute asshole way too quickly ... still, even if in all my 10 years with my dog he allowed himself to pee on carpet once - and on that occasion I was not yelling at him  even a bit, was not even angry - lately in life he was very ....blocked. psychologically. So my point here ...some of this ..housebreaking stuff with dogs really ...have too big impact on them? And...I don't want humans to doublebreak their loved  beings back into supposedly more normal state ..because..doublebroken is exactly this ..double (or more) broken ... But still, may be just traveling around and ...sort of wild play will provide everything horse and you need...


And of course, riding without all those ..horsefucking devices is somewhat different story, compared to most std. thing still around. yet ... I hope you will have healthy self-doubts over this, but not to the point of behaving too neurotic about it.

[Andrew-R]

..and, just theoretically, my problem with horses might come not as unability to keep up with their running, but as exactly opposite - unability  to stay around _without_ doing/demanding some  way too usual for me human  shit. Of course, I may never come to horses in all my life ..still, this is thinking about my possible limitations, and thus ..useful, may be? For at least pre-developing some ..patience. Really ....long patience. Long enough for not breaking out  for hours and hours of not-lead-by-me walk/grazing. Might be useful in some other areas of life, as well ....

[caikgoch]

As much as I hate saying it, 30-30 is dead on about living with horses.       There is a partnership that has been developed over millennia.       I bring shelter, medical tech, and stored food.      He brings speed, strength, and super senses.        We can do things that neither of us individually are capable of.       When we ride my more detailed eyesight and human knowledge keep us safe.      He knows that.       Hands are magic from an equine pov.       All of the horses will call me and seek my help when anything disturbs them.       And all of them find me entertaining.       We groom, socialize, tease, and play.       You are confusing the difficulties of a wild animal with a domesticated animal that has evolved along side humans.

[heavyhorse]

3 hours ago, caikgoch said:




When we ride my more detailed eyesight.....

Must disagree on that.  Noticed while I was still in my 'teens that when the horse suddenly "comes to attention" (motionless, head up, ears forward), if I stared intently in the same direction I eventually saw a guy's head and shoulders coming over a hill 3 properties over.  Other times it would be a deer in the tree line a quarter mile away.  Horses vision may be monochromatic, but it's about 330 degree view and way sharper than human vision.  (Usually.  YMMV.  I had a pony once that was nearly bat blind, her eyes bulged in a very unnatural way.)

[caikgoch]

37 minutes ago, heavyhorse said:




Must disagree on that.  Noticed while I was still in my 'teens that when the horse suddenly "comes to attention" (motionless, head up, ears forward), if I stared intently in the same direction I eventually saw a guy's head and shoulders coming over a hill 3 properties over.  Other times it would be a deer in the tree line a quarter mile away.  Horses vision may be monochromatic, but it's about 330 degree view and way sharper than human vision.  (Usually.  YMMV.  I had a pony once that was nearly bat blind, her eyes bulged in a very unnatural way.)

Horses are better at spotting motion and change.      Humans are better with color and pattern recognition.      He may alert first but I'm the one that knows how to react to whatever it is.      He trusts my judgement of potential threats.       

[heavyhorse]

This is so.  

[Andrew-R]

..and just as sort of correction..I digged into my archive (like, from 2007) and found whole russian forum was located on different domain after all, so it all (nearly..) still around .....
http://horseplanet.ru/school/


thing is, on my way to my friend I definitely run more often than not into ...horses and ponies with some humans attached (hm ....bad pun), and those humans beg for money for (as they said) feeding their horses ... this is not new thing at all, I just ..don't know what I should/must to do with some of it ....


 and moving a bit away from this (over)riding topic (you will have whole of your time to think and rethink it ...and re-act, may be) I still wish to say I see this as ..useful kind of compromise, i mean talking with (semi-outsider) humans about 95% of all our/your actions and ways of living with  horses or dogs or whoever else [not directly related to narrow definition of sex. While term like 'sociosexual life' IMO describes reality and connection between two much better than segregating sex into too isolated category. For beings who can be social with us this social part is first, and defining. Sexual part is builds around it .. ], and thus building very good foundation for them not to fail if things ..move in unusual direction... Pushing and overinflating sexual bit is obviously (for me) wrong idea, even if we talk about humans..so, idea about having 'public' zoophilia as ..unusual (for our time) consistency of thinking and behavior towards non-humans. Of course with humans who can think ..(this is point of Nevzorov's 'ideo-logy'. Thinking as essential part of emphaty, care .... and not just thinking, but self-critical thinking..and I should add....other-human-supportive thing, something hard to implement, but essential..because we humans social animals and many of our failures are in collective mode, so something to work on improving... ). I realize humans are not most wanted kinds of beings for ..at least some of older posters here, due to ...many objective, subjective, and mixed reasons. But then again, you people have bigger connection network with other humans who _might_ find those more revolutionary ideas worth discussing and attempting at implementing, not touching ' raw sex bit' (as exclusive topic of discussion..and action...) for a while (just as you want, 30-30). Ew, my way of constructing complex sentences kinda ... hard to read. In short: there is something you and I want or even should put forward, and this something should benefit non-humans regardless of possibility or impossibility of  any sexual relations with them. Because if humans behave like .. gentle-mans 95% of  their time anyway (100% excluding sex time) - then in  last 5% when (if) their sex time come ..they have bigger chance (intuitively) not to fail it than  humans who spend their thinking perfecting  those 'most wanted/important' 5% and neglecting all other 95, like night of good sex can outwork all wrongs of previous days and years... see my point?


Here is quote from Anthony Weston, may be you will find old philosopher's words useful in your life  (from "Is It Too Late? Anthony Weston In An Invitation to Environmental Philosophy, ed. A. Weston (Oxford & New York: Oxford University Press), 1999, 43-68"):

----------




    Jim Nollman plays jazz rhythms with killer whales, orcas. Working

in their media, as it were, not primarily ours, and going to them in a

way that allows them to break off the encounter whenever they wish.

Talk about elementary politeness: this is the most basic

considerateness of all: not forcing your presence or your projects on

another. Millions of official research dollars pour into academic

research on captive animals—or dead animals, the perfect subjects—

while Nollman just jury-rigs a floating drum or puts his guitar in the

canoe and paddles out to visit his friends.

[....]




   Nollman is not Saving the Earth. He is not even saving orcas. He is

joining the orcas, with grace, with skill, with etiquette. Free and wild.

Enough to hope for just that.




-----------

of course it all was written nearly 20 years ago..things progressed, so Anthony's views .....

But may be important thing here... movement to re-learn how to love someone shouldn't be activism in current overexcited sense of this word, but just.. living coherently. With some things (elements) not pushed too forward, yet not hidden at least from intellectual understanding and discussion.



<a class="ipsAttachLink" href="//www.zoowg.net/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=3512">Weston.pdf</a>

[WinterGreenWolf]

I think Caikgoch and HeavyHorse are right about Equine eyesight.




I've dealt with horses who can seem to see forever, while others get spooked and somewhat panic when you're right next to them.




I've also dealt with a blind Saddlebred gelding, he was still surprisingly capable and was a real sweetheart if naughty at times.




 

[Edog91]

On 11/16/2018 at 11:31 PM, WinterGreenWolf said:




. That being said: spectacles like Hands, Aluzky and Whitney Wisconsin are -bad, bad- juju for us all around. 




 

Aluzky is still around ?  I know he got banned from YouTube for promoting pedophilia, It was so cringe.After that I thought he disappeared off the Internet Forever.




 

[30-30]

Yeah, Aluzky made another accont and still is promoting his "zoophilia" in the youtube comment section. I stumbled across him while I was watching a video about the "Kero the Wolf" stuff. It´s undeniably him, his remarks about him being doxxed ("Aleks Salazar" account on Twitter) and his usual practice of fucking the animals he dogsits  give it away plain and simple.