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22 minutes ago, WinterGreenWolf said:
The thing you have to understand, as 30-30 said, and I discovered after digging a little deeper once one of our conversations concluded above is: a -lot- of the venom was brought upon us, *by* us! People like Ken Pinyin for example: he wasn't 'in love' with horses, he didn't do it for the stud's pleasure, he did it to 'feel', he was a masochist.
I look at it differently. As long as there is consent I couldn't care less the motivation.
11-17-2018, 07:28 AM
(This post was last modified: 11-17-2018, 07:30 AM by covfefelake.)
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4 hours ago, 30-30 said:
Yes, and in this orientation, people need to gain control over their "urges to tell", it´s as simple as that.
This is persecution. You may not recognize it as such, but it meets the definitions. You are being treated differently and must hide more than is average or face social ramifications and possible arrest.. Simple.
EDIT: Bleh, other forums I frequent automerge posts. Ignore my brain fart.
...and you also show the typical Rannoch stubbornness, too. [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/ [email protected] 2x" title=";)" width="20" /> This is not persecution, no matter how often you repeat it. What the GDR did with its dissident countrymen, that was persecution. Not being able to contain yourselves about your sex life, that´s what I don´t call persecution, but sexual tourettes. But I guess you´re just too entrenched in these "modern" ways of thinking, the same ways that tell people who are goddamn awful at singing they "simply have to go to their countries´ biggest and lamest casting show". When I grew up, it was considered shameless and rude to stick your sexuality in everyone else´s faces. "A gentleman enjoys and stays silent". Ever heard that proverb?
I simply don´t buy that simple logic of "It´s always somebody else´s fault" . The recent wave of "anti zoo" legislation was not the result of a worldwide anti zoophilia conspiracy, but the simple and foreseeable result of a community´s own blind eye towards a huge chunk of their members being the cornucopia of pouring plethora of damn good reasons to try to restrict and control "the zoo community". But I guess I can say whatever I want, the victim status is just too seductive, huh? [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/ [email protected] 2x" title=";)" width="20" /> And pardon me, why are you, a self proclaimed outsider that only accidentally stumbled across zoophilia, even caring about us and our current social status? You´re surely the first and only outsider I´ve met in my entire life who sounds exactly like so many people from our community. Even the most sympathetic outsiders don´t become a full copy of the generic "we´re all persecuted!" "pro zoo" activist...you sure you´re not another alias of Rannoch? [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/ [email protected] 2x" title=";)" width="20" />
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12 hours ago, 30-30 said:
...and you also show the typical Rannoch stubbornness, too.
I mean, we did have the same liberal school upbringing. Doesn't change the fact that this is definitions and thus, you are being stubborn, not me.
11-17-2018, 11:33 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-17-2018, 11:37 PM by covfefelake.)
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12 hours ago, 30-30 said:
This is not persecution, no matter how often you repeat it.
<b>"Persecution</b> is the systematic mistreatment of an individual or group by another individual or group."
That's straight from my dictionary. What would you call this, then? It fits. Maybe you don't view sexual expression as a human right. Most heterosexual humans do though, ie the majority of the world.
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12 hours ago, 30-30 said:
Not being able to contain yourselves about your sex life, that´s what I don´t call persecution, but sexual tourettes.
Nope. That's actually more status quo for most humans, man.
Your definitions are distorted and no one I can think of, conservative or liberal has ever argued this. It's still persecution by it's definition and making trump-esque comments like this doesn't change what the term means.
Pedophiles are persecuted too. But good thing, I'd argue! Persecution can be righteous.
EDIT: God damn, need to remember there is no automerge.
...and where exactly are "we" systematically mistreated? Come on, you "outsider" , please "normsplain" my orientation to me, okay? [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/ [email protected] 2x" title=";)" width="20" /> You´re way too emotionally involved in this as an outsider, btw. Come on, end the charade.
Yeah, my definitions are indeed distorted. So distorted my life as a zoo amidst a shitload of non zoo horsepeople actually worked out just fine, with not the slightest hint of being persecuted. So, who´s the real loser in this situation here, Rannoch? The one sporting the "right" ideology, but is dysfunctional in real life? Or the one with the "distorted" definitions and views who happily swapped all this ideologic crap for a life that matches damn perfectly what he had dreamt of?
Well, basically I don´t give a shit anymore. "Persecuted" or not, it doesn´t matter. But one thing I simply cannot resist to mention here: your way of thinking is now for more than twenty years the dominant one in our community. What has it achieved in this time? Besides from a shitton of new laws and bans? "Doing the same experiment over and over again and expecting different results...." can you complete Einstein´s quote?
"Systematically mistreated", my ass.
You know, 30-30: the more I see you two go back and forth with definitions the more I can really see both sides. We've discussed this earlier but I can certainly understand and relate as to why you feel how you do. To my discredit I should have given you the chance to prove that in the other thread: but I guess I sort of 'wanted to make myself known' in the pack, what I'd take and what I wouldn't from people. Guess that's kind of hindsight though.
As to the other thread that Silverwolf started about 'coming out to the public' I stated some things (and ranted) there that would be nice as a Zoo. Would be nice not having to hide and look over my shoulder all the time. That being said, again I know -why- it has to be done and how it got to this point now that 30' has explained some of the 'old drama' to me and caused me to do a little more digging than I'd done before.
Now, to Covfefelake, you may see this a little differently, but we need to get something straight right now. We don't 'fuck animals' just because they consent or because it's 'cool': emotion plays -all- the roles, and ticks all the boxes for us! That's -why- we're Zoophiles, and not just a group of animal-sex-seeking fetishists with cameras and hours of video. To us (ones like myself, 30-30, SIlverwolf...) this is a big thing in our lives. This is what myself and 30-30 were debating for most of the thread.
I will hand you that there's some persecutive elements and undertones to the whole mess: but again a lot of it is our doing. I mean hell Ken (Mr. Hands) was 'consentual', you can't force a thousand pound animal to just 'fuck you silly'. Ken's problem was that it was -just a fetish- to him, done in poor taste with stupid choices that made it to the public's eyes: the public isn't ready for us now and they -really- weren't ready for that shocker of a mess back then.
Political wise, a vast majority of the time I don't give a shit, hell I'm mostly a centerist (I can agree with left and right depending on the issue)..
I hope I didn't come across as -too- snappy to you by the way, but you need to understand that the attraction and attachment -does- matter to us. It's life changing in every way possible.
11-18-2018, 07:33 AM
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2018, 07:35 AM by Resident Hyaena.)
Quote:
On 11/16/2018 at 11:04 PM, WinterGreenWolf said:
RM, I'm -terribly- sorry. I didn't mean for that to sound like I was saying you were a problem: It was late and my grammar was terrible that night. What I was referring to was that acting on your attraction sexually towards Avians wasn't really a straight forward possibility. That was in reference to 30-30 saying you had to 'have experience' to be a Zoo. What I was saying was that for some attractions (Birds, Fish / sharks, Reptiles..) it's virtually impossible. Either due to risk of injury to the animal, or a difficulty of meeting the animal you're attracted to. Which of course was brought up in our discussion of what 'makes a zoo' well, a zoophile: the whole reality vs. fantasy, online vs. Real Life sort of thing.
Thank you for your reply.
I had suspected it was a grammatical and/or punctuation issue, but the possibility that it could have actually been as it appeared "on its face", or that others could have read it that way, made it necessary for me to seek clarification.
As for straight forward possibilities on Avian sexual interactions, I can say from years of actual personal experience, that there are many ways that a person and a Bird can safely engage in some very intimate, mutually pleasurable, and quite straightforward sexual activities. Descriptions of these however would likely be off-topic for this thread, so I won't post them here. Perhaps as a reply in a relevant thread, or in its own thread.
If you want to know more about these, feel free to ask, and I will try to answer as best I can. There are complications though. With "real world stuff" demanding real time, plus limited dexterity and quick manual fatigue affecting my typing, a response may be subject to some delay.
And I have another chapter of a Zoo story I am working on, that needs to be finished and posted here.
Thank you again for your reply. And I hope you decide to take a closer look at what IS possible between human and Bird.
Resident Hyaena ^..^
No problem at all. I figured there was a lot more to it than met the eye, and I did know that more 'traditional things' were very difficult, dangerous or impossible.
I may have to ask / have a look some day as I don't know a lot about avians.
Come to think of it, unless I'm missing it that could be a good thread for the 'Reference Guides' section if time and health permit.
Take care and good luck. [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/smile.png[/img]/emoticons/ [email protected] 2x" title=":)" width="20" />
11-19-2018, 12:03 AM
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2018, 12:13 AM by covfefelake.)
Quote:
On 11/17/2018 at 3:53 PM, 30-30 said:
...and where exactly are "we" systematically mistreated?
The fact that you must literally hide your love life above what is normal, or face legal persecution, for starters? That is literally mistreatment by the system (AKA "Systemic Mistreament"), man.
Quote:
16 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:
Now, to Covfefelake, you may see this a little differently, but we need to get something straight right now. We don't 'fuck animals' just because they consent or because it's 'cool': emotion plays -all- the roles, and ticks all the boxes for us!
I know... and I know Rannoch was a zoophile, BTW. But what I was saying is I guess conceptually i have no issue with straight bestiality either as long as it is consensual. That doesn't make sense to ostracize one while accepting another, logically speaking.
Quote:
16 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:
I hope I didn't come across as -too- snappy to you by the way, but you need to understand that the attraction and attachment -does- matter to us. It's life changing in every way possible.
Oh I do! Don't get me wrong, it's part of what made me understand zoophilia in the first place was Rannoch's love for animals was unquestionably real. I was only speaking philosophically, as the law should think.
Quote:
On 11/17/2018 at 3:53 PM, 30-30 said:
You´re way too emotionally involved in this as an outsider, btw. Come on, end the charade.
I mean, did you ever stop to think that may have something to do with, I don't know, a dead friend? I did say this has been independently verified. Why you insist on keeping playing dumb when several individuals know this to be a fact is... a little disturbing. Did you hate Rannoch that much? What the heck did he ever do to you? If I missed something, I'd genuinely like to know about it.
But I will answer you: I too am a victim of this persecution. How, you ask? A friend I knew very well was too fearful to tell me this secret, and because of that, he is now dead. I have nightmares about this shit. I could've blamed zoophilia but that would require me blaming my friend, which i knew I could not do (he loved animals too much). Instead, I blame the world that lead him up that road. I blame his folks for not guiding him better. Finally, I blame myself for not seeing through the charade.
So yeah, you could say I am emotionally involved, and you'd be right.
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