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8 hours ago, Edog91 said:
Aluzky is still around ? I know he got banned from YouTube for promoting pedophilia, It was so cringe.After that I thought he disappeared off the Internet Forever.
Still around actually. He has an empty YouTube channel again and regularly comments on a lot of the 'bestiality shock' videos: talking about how 'people who don't accept Zoosex and zoosexuals are bigots'.. His typical cringe-spill that got hom in trouble to begin with.
The few times I've sat to read in to him in depth, in the seas of cringe he's had a very few flashes of brilliance.. it kind of hurts me to say that too.. [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/tongue.png[/img]/emoticons/ [email protected] 2x" title=":P" width="20" />
Brilliance? Aluzky? Must´ve missed out on those rare occasions... [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/ [email protected] 2x" title=";)" width="20" /> Buried in an ocean of feces, no diamond will sparkle... [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/ [email protected] 2x" title=";)" width="20" />
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On 11/16/2018 at 10:08 AM, silverwolf1 said:
Is drawing public attention to ourselves inherently flawed and dangerous to us and our way of life? Is it even necessary? Does having public approval or tolerance of bestiality or zoophilia change your daily life with your mate or companion, and how?
sw
Like some have said here, public attention is going to be drawn to us no matter what. It's simply a matter of who controls the narrative. If we allow mainstream society and the irrational, reactionary types to run wild and unchecked, we'll always be seen as monsters in the eyes of everyone because we did nothing and remained silent.
I'm a firm believer that the best countermeasure for misinformation is to peacefully and respectfully offer up the truth for those who are not zoo but are open and intelligent enough to seek out the truth for themselves. Can we change the opinion of the masses? Realistically, i'd say it's a long-shot. I believe that a much more viable goal for the zoo community is to focus not on society or gaining acceptance but to simply target and attempt to stop the persecution of zoos who cause no harm.
Personally, I do not seek acceptance or approval by the mainstream, I just want to be able to live my life with my partners and socialize with my friends who understand my sexuality without anyone having to worry about becoming the victim of legal prejudice.
I think we do need to draw attention to ourselves, positive attention from the right people and while there's going to be some degree of risk in doing so, we live our lives every day facing unknown and unseen risks to our livelihood and well-being. Should we place ourselves in situations of unreasonable or unnecessary risk? No but I don't believe we should live our lives, basking in fear or anxiety either.
TL;DR: We need to control the narrative that we aren't harmful to society and aren't abusive to our partners and we need to present these truths tactfully and to the right individuals.
Just my thoughts
Lyc
There was a time I thought we might be able to get somewhere with at least being left alone but I really don't think things will be better than they are currently at least in my life time and I do think to a large degree we are our own worst enemy. I think we are too fragmented and too wilfully blind to ever actually move anything forward ourselves. The fragmentation doesn't really need explaining as anyone who has been around long enough will have felt it to some degree.
The wilful blindness covers the figures so many of us choose to attach to and follow. I have seen time and again in this community how figures who are toxic and should be avoided are held up in high regard despite whatever evidence exists about who they really are. Fausty was a good example of this. Several of us made an attempt to warn the greater community about him fearing someone might get hurt otherwise. No one wanted to listen and what happened? Someone not only got hurt but had their life completely and utterly destroyed. There are other examples besides Fausty - one of the current leading figures in the Telegram group scene is perhaps a good place to start with evidence of his past surfacing but being ignored by most. We really need to set ourselves free and separate ourselves from these people as no one will take us seriously so long as the loudest voices are those from nut jobs or convicted animal abusers.
As an aside here is a potentially unique insight I can provide -
The TLDR of my history for those who don't know is that upon discovering my sexuality (due to my carelessness) my family freaked out which led to the cops getting involved which led to me being arrested and losing my dogs. When the bestiality case collapsed the SPCA killed one of my dogs and rehomed the other before I could start legal proceedings against them to get the dogs back. Due to how things went with my family I was out - completely and utterly out. Everyone knew who I was. As a result of this I spent several years completely out. Whenever I felt myself getting close to someone I would tell them who I was. My reasoning was it would only be a matter of time before they heard about it so if I told them at least I could have some control over it.
I told maybe 7 or 8 people over a few years. None of them reacted badly, none of them pushed me away or treated me any differently than they had previously. There was some curiosity and I was happy to answer any questions. In a lot of ways it was very freeing to live like that. I moved overseas to the UK to start life fresh and when I arrived here I made the firm decision that once again I would revert to being "in the closet". As freeing as it was telling people who I am it just isn't worth the risk. It only takes one person to react badly and they can ruin your life. My own experience with my family and some friends I grew up with, went to school with, seeing me as an enemy or worse because of my sexuality will always be enough to prove to me that people on the whole are not ready. Some are ready and if we are lucky we'll wind up with some of those people around us. I remain good friends with most of those I came out to all those years ago despite the ocean that now separates us.
I suppose in closing I would say my experience tells me that you can land better if you are able to control your own outing but I'd strongly advise against anyone outing themselves because people aren't ready for us and it will only take one to ruin your life.
From a community stand point we are our own worst enemy and currently have no chance of getting anywhere. Unless and until we learn to see the forest for the trees instead of blinding following the loudest zoo we are doomed to keep screwing ourselves or worse. Not all zoos are good people and as a community we really need to get over the mentality that leads so much of us to believe that they are.
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2 hours ago, Thunder-Bay-Syd said:
. Not all zoos are good people and as a community we really need to get over the mentality that leads so much of us to believe that they are.
What I've been trying to say for it seems like decades now... oh, it has been decades.
sw
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21 hours ago, Thunder-Bay-Syd said:
From a community stand point we are our own worst enemy and currently have no chance of getting anywhere. Unless and until we learn to see the forest for the trees instead of blinding following the loudest zoo we are doomed to keep screwing ourselves or worse. Not all zoos are good people and as a community we really need to get over the mentality that leads so much of us to believe that they are.
You make some good points, Thunder.
This one, in particular, seems to me like something that we could at least mitigate to an extent but with the zoo community so fragmented, I wonder how this could be addressed.
Do you have any thoughts on that?
I suppose the point I'm trying to get at is, I often observe members of the community that seem to want to give something in some way but are often lost as to how or what they could do.
Lyc
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2 hours ago, LycanTheory said:
You make some good points, Thunder.
This one, in particular, seems to me like something that we could at least mitigate to an extent but with the zoo community so fragmented, I wonder how this could be addressed.
Do you have any thoughts on that?
I suppose the point I'm trying to get at is, I often observe members of the community that seem to want to give something in some way but are often lost as to how or what they could do.
Lyc
I honestly don't think it is possible at this point. I think there are too many deeply ingrained psychological forces at play. We aren't alone with this problem. The biggest comparison I can make is in politics and the way in which the world over humans consistently elect candidates that are snakes in the grass - claim to have the electorates best interests at heart but act in the complete opposite way. It just seems to be human nature to get behind the person who can shout the loudest.
Moving back to our world there are other issues such as anonymity. I've seen people ruin their reputation within the community then change their user name and come back as a prominent member. The biggest issue though is that these problems often come down to an argument of "he said, she said". I think this was the biggest issue with Fausty. Those of us that knew his character from previous interactions could and did warn others about him but it was our word against his and he is one hell of a convincing, persuasive character. In the end our experience counted for naught despite us being trusted members in the community - no one cared what we had to say.
I don't mean to keep bringing up Fausty but he is the perfect example of what I am referring to here especially as that cycle is once again repeating itself as people flock to him on Twitter. I befriended the person whose life he ruined several years ago and it really hurt me to sit with this person and talk about the ways in which his life had been destroyed. It is something I am very bitter about because it shouldn't have happened.
The best we can do I suppose is try to encourage people and especially those new to our world to avoid certain mistakes and really hammer home the point that there are dangerous people amongst us. Doing that though will require us building or rather rebuilding a more robust community that is less fragmented. The desire is there to do something as you rightly point out but I don't have the answers as to what. Some infrastructure that is a cross between something like Telegram and a forum would be ideal but who has the time (and skill) to safely develop it?
No matter what infrastructure is in place though I think we will still have this problem. There is always going to be someone who shouts louder than others and sells a story people want to believe. The thought of fighting for rights, etc is a very romantic notion that a lot of zoos seem to harbour. Unfortunately most simply don't realize that there is no romance involved in being outed, potentially imprisoned, losing your animals, having family and friends turn against you, losing careers, homes, etc, etc.
I don't believe it possible to avoid cults of personality in any human community, especially when people are emotional about a topic and there are things (e.g. ideas) to be bought and sold. Relative anonymity certainly exacerbates things, but even in the lowliest meatspace communities you see the tribalization and faction-building that happens around vocal leaders.
I think that point is important, though: not all zoos are good. There needs to be gatekeeping (to a careful extent) and rallying around groups/leadership that are paragons of excellence, but that's hard to do in a community so highly marginalized and suppressed vis a vis "normality". Taking the high road almost seems pointless sometimes when everyone else outside of the community takes it for granted that you're in the gutter.
I too wonder what can be done to maybe set ourselves - and our good bretheren and sisters - up for future success in making strides towards a narrative shift in time. Certainly not the overly romantic marches and protests and all, but I think there is something that can be done. I think the best thing that we can do now is to become individually the best human beings we possibly can be. Treat our partners and nonhuman friends with the utmost (dare I say obsessive) dedication and care, stay under the radar and out of the spotlight, take care of yourself and your appearance, be happy, stay fit and healthy, keep some other human company, and try to subtly shift the frame of discussion for those other humans around us. Don't be a creepy, dirty, antisocial, abusive, loudmouth douchebag. You don't have to out yourself to make others begin to question preconceived notions, or at least get them to begin questioning what it could mean to be seriously emotionally invested in someone who isn't human. For every one you manage to hook, or at least give you a shrug and say "it's none of my business, to each their own", there's a possibility that they'll spread that idea to others.
Until we are ready to join up in real life (and I mean really join up, not just half-assing it), which may be a looooong time or even never, I think that every one of us is an ambassador. Even if the community is fractured, it just means that we each individually have to be responsible for the appearance of the whole, rather than defaulting to a larger entity to cover for us. Yes, the notion does yield some power to antisocial elements who will take it upon themselves to lead the charge and speak for others. But, if the quiet majority does way more positive work per unit time, such a system will tend to drown out the few toxic characters over the long haul.
I'm sorry, no. Just no. The 3 or 4 public spectacle train-wrecks are all people remember. Fausty, Aluzky, Mr Hands, are what immediately pops up in people's mind. Trying to scream what a stable genius and all-around great guy I am as a zoo on my youtube channel (then getting tagged for pedo posts) is NOT helping. Visibility of a quiet majority only makes it seem like there are more of us, sending people screaming with torches and pitchforks.
03-19-2019, 01:33 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2019, 09:03 PM by silverwolf1.)
There is sense in BOTH of the previous posts. We do indeed need to police the whole to a degree, as much of a degree as anonymity and our own safety will allow. Failure to do so gives the appearance of condoning such behavior within the community. We also NEED to hold ourselves to as high a standard among others as we can, to show we are not "monsters" abusing animals against their will, but living normal lives in normal relationships with willing partners. Neither can be done to perfection, but this is not a perfect world. We can try though, and maybe change some minds along the way. I've never seen any other way as being viable, not parades or protests or legislation or such. Despite the desire to compare, we are not like the "Gay" community. Whats worked, is working, or might work there will not work here. That community is human/ human, we aren't. That simple difference throws those methods out the window until it's proven that our partners even have rights to uphold.
sw
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