Are we our own worst enemy?

[Thunder-Bay-Syd]

45 minutes ago, caikgoch said:




How could I argue with that?   He tried (is still trying) to do the same to me.   But the best way I know to *NOT* become the thing I loath is to be fully honest with myself and others.  

There is a lot to be said for your last point there. I remember falling for Fausty when he first appeared on BF I think it was in the summer of 2004. Everything he said sounded right to me. He speaks a lot of truth and it is no surprise that he manages to draw in people the way he does.




I wish things were different but I can't make them different.




I think a line needs to be drawn when we get in to the territory where people (and naturally animals in this context) can get hurt. If Fausty were off completely on his own doing his own thing none of this would matter. The way things are though reminds me of moths drawn to a halogen bulb...  drawn to the light before going up in the inevitable puff of smoke.




Ultimately whatever I've written here I will freely admit is for naught. I gave up years ago trying to be any sort of guardian of the zoo community. It is just too painful watching these things unfold and meet their inevitable ends.

[caikgoch]

7 hours ago, Thunder-Bay-Syd said:




Ultimately whatever I've written here I will freely admit is for naught. I gave up years ago trying to be any sort of guardian of the zoo community. It is just too painful watching these things unfold and meet their inevitable ends.

Oh no.   The one thing that gives value to all the pain is the hope that someone will learn from my mistakes and maybe a few individuals (of whatever species) will be spared pain.

[Equilibera]

4 hours ago, caikgoch said:




The one thing that gives value to all the pain is the hope that someone will learn from my mistakes and maybe a few individuals (of whatever species) will be spared pain.

I think that's practically a guarantee as long as the info is out there somewhere. The results may not be ever visible to you, but you should have confidence that it will affect someone, and that someone (and everyone around them) will be better off for it. I know reading about all this over time has made an impact on me, for one.




I've only ever been on the outside looking in on all the big blowups and political wrangling that have happened over the years. I was too young in the 'oughts to have skin in the game. I'm sad that it all had to happen and that many, human or not, are still dealing with the fallout.

11 hours ago, Thunder-Bay-Syd said:




Ultimately whatever I've written here I will freely admit is for naught. I gave up years ago trying to be any sort of guardian of the zoo community. It is just too painful watching these things unfold and meet their inevitable ends.

I don't think it is.




I thank you for merely even having the thought, at some point, of trying to be something like that for us...whether that idea was fully fledged or not. I'm really grateful. Regardless of how jaded I'm sure you feel now, I know that you made an impact.




Chalk it up to naive optimism, maybe, but it's a sincere feeling.

[LycanTheory]

3 hours ago, Equilibera said:




I think that's practically a guarantee as long as the info is out there somewhere. The results may not be ever visible to you, but you should have confidence that it will affect someone, and that someone (and everyone around them) will be better off for it. I know reading about all this over time has made an impact on me, for one.




I've only ever been on the outside looking in on all the big blowups and political wrangling that have happened over the years. I was too young in the 'oughts to have skin in the game. I'm sad that it all had to happen and that many, human or not, are still dealing with the fallout.




I don't think it is.




I thank you for merely even having the thought, at some point, of trying to be something like that for us...whether that idea was fully fledged or not. I'm really grateful. Regardless of how jaded I'm sure you feel now, I know that you made an impact.




Chalk it up to naive optimism, maybe, but it's a sincere feeling.

I agree with this.




People can choose to be naive and ignore relevant information or they can choose to educate themselves from the experiences of others.




I'd like to think that I've taken quite a bit from what you've written here, as I was out if the loop when a lot of this stuff happened and I'm slowly catching up and beginning to understand how and why some things are the way they are, presently.




I think it might help to promote younger zoos (of course, the same could be said for many young people, overall) to think for themselves instead of being blind followers of anyone in particular.




One thing that concerns me is the level of anxiety or fear that seems to plague  members of the community and now I'm beginning to understand that some of it is warranted, although I do not believe that caution bordering on the threshold of paranioa is healthy. I think there's probably a reasonable middle-ground that can be reached.




Lyc

[cervids]

On 3/20/2019 at 6:32 AM, Thunder-Bay-Syd said:




Fausty is unquestionably a zoo but he is a zoo that causes a cycle of pain and destruction wherever he goes. I can't separate that much like most people can't separate him from the rest of his baggage.

Fausty's behavior is what strips him of his status as "zoo" in my eyes.  He does it in complete disregard for his animals future wellbeing and stability.




He also ruined a web-friend of mines life (curious if we are talking about the same individual Thunder-Bay-Syd), so, above may be biased of course.




 

[silverwolf1]

10 hours ago, cervids said:




Fausty's behavior is what strips him of his status as "zoo" in my eyes.  He does it in complete disregard for his animals future wellbeing and stability.




 




 

'nuff said.




sw

[EthicalZ]

On 3/22/2019 at 10:17 PM, cervids said:




Fausty's behavior is what strips him of his status as "zoo" in my eyes.  He does it in complete disregard for his animals future wellbeing and stability.

I disagree. fausty seems to do what he does out of his horrid experience with law enforcement mistreating and ultimately killing his animals.




He's trying to protect people and animals. He's just going about it wrong. I say all this despite having butted heads with him quite a bit.

[cervids]

On 4/6/2019 at 0:34 AM, EthicalZ said:




I disagree. fausty seems to do what he does out of his horrid experience with law enforcement mistreating and ultimately killing his animals.




He's trying to protect people and animals. He's just going about it wrong. I say all this despite having butted heads with him quite a bit.

Thing is most zoos don't attract law enforcement like he does.

 




His other vices did that, not his quasizoo status.  And that is why to me he isn't a zoo.  The animals did not come first.