Oh, Ramseys, I wish all zoos would actually take Nietzsche´s quote into their hearts and stop begging for public assurement of their sexuality....we´d be lots of steps ahead if zoos would do so. If you really want to know Nietzsche´s view on being "not like the others", I advise you to pick up his "Also sprach Zarathustra" and read it. This book helped me a lot with coping with my life outside the "normal" boundaries and gave me true insight in the human hive mind. The loneliness and the angst are the price you have to pay...Nietzsche knew it, but sadly many zoos don´t .
Regarding the "we´re diverse people": are there truly folks out there who are surprised that having a sexual interest in animals won´t make us into a homogenous mass of people sharing literally all interests? Total homogenity is rare, even in groups that are way more homogenous than we are.
"Insanity is rare in individuals, whereas in groups, it is the rule." - Nietzsche [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/ [email protected] 2x" title=";)" width="20" /> "Yes, that´s true, especially in the zoo community." - 30-30 [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/ [email protected] 2x" title=";)" width="20" />
02-11-2018, 05:39 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2018, 05:45 AM by Rannoch.)
Quote:
On 1/16/2018 at 9:40 PM, 30-30 said:
But do you really think that some hobbies will change the "barnyard fucker" image most of the normals do have of us?
Frankly, no. And honestly, I think your nuts for thinking anything you can do can change our image because it's just too engrained.
I just like challenging stupid societal stereotypes. Like finding out that "brainless barnyard fucks" can actually be factaully smart people. Call it a hobby.
Oh, and this is funnily enough a mutual feeling:
Quote:
Quote
I somehow admire your innocence and the way you view the world...
" As I said in my previous post. "It truly is good to see we're such a diverse group of people." "
My experience over many years is and has been that a love of animals or at least a lusy=t for them, is the only common interest among zoos. We are otherwise as diverse as the general population. I suspect if it were possible to rank the closeted ones this wouldn't change.
.
Quote:
8 hours ago, Rannoch said:
Frankly, no. And honestly, I think your nuts for thinking anything you can do can change our image because it's just too engrained.
I just like challenging stupid societal stereotypes. Like finding out that "brainless barnyard fucks" can actually be factaully smart people. Call it a hobby.
Oh, and this is funnily enough a mutual feeling:
"your nuts"???..Would you please leave my testicles out of this debate..?!? [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/ [email protected] 2x" title=";)" width="20" />
So you´re thinking "our" (what is this our? Whom does it include?) image is "too engrained"...but still support behaviour that is exactly the foundation of the image that´s too engrained? You must be a real genius, Rannoch...
And for the sole purpose of self entertainment or, as you call it, a "hobby", you are nothing less than further engraining this very image into the common mind, right? With ludicrous demands, with opinions falsely presented as facts, with all the grey areas of bestiality/zoophilia left out of the discussions on purpose and because it wouldn´t fit your chosen narrative? You´re literally the Einstein of denial, self centered mind patterns and sucking one´s own dick....;) Oh, I guess I´ll have to take that inappropriate comparison back, because Einstein uttered on several occasions he thought of himself not as a genius...
Rannoch, you can think of me what you want, but contrary to you, I have my life with my mare, I have lived as a practicing zoo for decades among the "hateful outsiders", who were not as hateful as many members of our community like to portray it. What do you have?
I still don't see any common ground universally except zoophilia. Many of us share many hopbbies but there's no other common thread. Some of them interest me, some don't. Mine are dog shows and hotrod rides of the muscle days. Which, not surprisingly, are returning.
One thought for the group though. Somebody referred to Ramsesy as 'naive'. He's a professional and personal friend of decades and a lot of things he is, but naive isn't one ofr them.
02-11-2018, 11:53 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2018, 12:07 AM by Rannoch.)
Quote:
9 hours ago, 30-30 said:
but still support behaviour that is exactly the foundation of the image that´s too engrained? You must be a real genius, Rannoch...
No, the image is simply going to be there irrelevant of our behavior. I'm an opponent of burning down the barn to save the horses, metaphorically speaking.
Since society will not accept us no matter what (short of something outside our control), why make concessions to them? Especially when they have proven time and again they know next to nothing about us and have zero desire to learn? Our concessions will only worsen our condition and yield us nothing.
Honestly 30-30, I don't care what you have, but frankly, I don't believe your "outsiders accept me" or a lot of your stuff for even a second. Sorry. If it is true, Germany must be much different than where I grew up and I'm happy for you, but it doesn't change the basic point or grant you any ground here.
Quote:
6 hours ago, littlejohn said:
<div class="ipsQuote_contents">
Somebody referred to Ramsesy as 'naive'.
</div>
I thought the same... but 30-30 tends to think of anything that does not fit his narrative as "naive" so I'm not surprised.
To address your final point 30-30, about how sure I am... frankly I'm not. I've admitted that to you in PMs. The only thing life has taught me over the years is that I can't be sure about anything. But even if you're right and your methods would grant us acceptance, I'd still be opposed to them? Why?
Because again, I will not sell out good people to get acceptance like you propose. Even if that acceptance were guaranteed, I'd rather live oppressed with all my fellow zoos, than oppress some others meaninglessly to get some semblance of fake "freedom." Any freedom that comes from oppression is an oxymoron. Just think about that for a bit. There's a reason humanity says they'd rather "die on their feet than live on their knees."
Quote:
9 hours ago, 30-30 said:
What do you have?
The best memories a man can ask for, and eventually, peace.
I am very lucky.
02-12-2018, 04:13 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2018, 04:15 AM by Vermilion.)
Quote:
4 hours ago, Rannoch said:
Honestly 30-30, I don't care what you have, but frankly, I don't believe your "outsiders accept me" or a lot of your stuff for even a second. Sorry. If it is true, Germany must be much different than where I grew up and I'm happy for you, but it doesn't change the basic point or grant you any ground here.
It isn't... it isn't at all... maybe in the late 60s, but definitively not today... we have quite a lot of "zoo-hunters" trying to doxing people 'n stuff.
Rannoch, the only thing I can say is that you´re actually burning down the barn to save the horses when you´re relying on that mindset you have laid out here. This "all or nothing" attitude...Rannoch, isn´t that just some last resort you´re falling back onto because your demand for being "loved by society" was declined? Why are you so dependent on what society thinks of zoophiles and why can´t you see that you´re only playing exactly the role society expects you to play as the "creepy pervo trying to normalise fucking animals without any concerns" with that? Wouldn´t it be smarter to try and break this downward spiral? I´m more the guy who prefers the "foot in the door" policies...I´m preferring making concessions if it grants us more leverage on society´s unfavourable picture of zoophiles. And before you say that this is per definitionem impossible, well Rannoch, it isn´t. May I remind you of the disputes I had with members of reddit´s CringeAnarchy sub? And that these surprisingly tunred out quite well when I was communicating my "naive" weltbild? Look, man, our problem isn´t society, it´s not standing by our ideals. How can we expect someone from the outside believe us if our dearly held "ideals" are dismissed immediately once pants are unzipped?
You´re free to reject believing me about being "accepted" by society (what I never said, btw)...I said that people in the public boarding stables my mare was standing in never tried to interfere in my relationship with her. I´m not going for making zoophilia the new gay like your approach is doing, I´m going for the "respect other people´s privacy, then your privacy will more likely be respected" approach. I am, contracry to you, aware of the fact that our orientation poses an immense threat to Average Joe, has the potential to traumatise him and will inevitably lead to out of proportions defense reactions. You don´t calm the waters by focefully beating on its surface, you know. Let things calm down after the huge wave of "anti zoo" laws, don´t seek salvation in kneejerk reactions. Proper timing is key here, and doing the right thing at the wrong time may actually result in a huge setback our community will take ages to recover from....and sadly, that´s exactly what your approach does. As I said so many times before, just take a look around, your approach of open confrontation, your "heads through the wall" strategy has been nothing but total failure, all of the "anti zoo" laws are a direct reaction to that failed strategy and didn´t grow out of nothing.
Or are you still denying how much this internet "zoo" bullshit has changed everything, Rannoch? In the mid 80´s , nobody cared about "us", we practically were left alone by society, nobody interfered...then, the internet happened and all of those ridiculous "activists" emerged...and now? Have we progressed? Or isn´t it a quite clear fact that all this "activism" has done but one thing, generating unwanted and undesirable attention that laid the path towards what we experience today? Do you think that there were "anti zoo activists" back in the 80´s? Why are they a thing today? Don´t you think it has something to do with how we, how our community has acted ever since ?
Let´s do some deduction, Rannoch, will we? We have a) an orientation that is heavily frowned upon in b) an era of never experienced permissiveness. You can confess getting horny by getting whipped while three cucumbers are inserted in your anus and your nipples are torched with a flamethrower at noon on public TV talk shows and no one bats an eye. Do you really believe that a) is frowned upon just for reasons of "hate of a certain orientation"? Or is it more like that our orientation has several, never adressed by the "zoo community", grey areas that prevent a) from total absolution? Is society really so selectively hateful or could there be actual, factual and real concern about animals and the unbalanced power dynamics between humans and animals? Could it be that some of the criticism our orientation and our community faces IS valid and justified ...and the self victimisation we sadly try to apply to this criticism is nothing else but openly declared moral bankrupcy because we have literally nothing to disperse it? Fuzzyfurry once said in a debate with me: "Well, if there are animals who have to endure torturous circumstances because "zoo rights" are more important than animal rights", then it surely isn´t me who´s the one sabotaging all efforts towards increased tolerance, don´t you think? Sadly, our community seems to have this "zoos first" attitude and animals hurt and killed by "zoos" are seen as "collateral damage" that has to stand back for "zoo rights". As long as our community cannot solve this dilemma, this contradictio in eo of claiming to love animals, but preferring "zoo rights" over them anytime, everything we do is pointless. Instead, this horrible "fake news" crap is pulled out everytime a "zoo" makes another headline....as if fucking animals isn´t already enough to alienate the public, no, all additional findings are first and foremost doubted until they actually turn out to be true, like in the case of the Espenau fencehopper, remember? "NO, another harmless zoo prosecuted for "loving" animals!!!"...I still remember how quickly interest of the community vanished once I gave actual info about what happened....and it´s like this practically ALL the time. Kneejerk reactions, brought up in mind bogglin aequivalency of what our "opponents" , the antis react like when confronted with yet another "harmless zoo". Two sides of the same coin, united in the same "don´t research, just let your bowels do the thinking" strategy, only defending their respective agendas, not interested in the truth at all. Rannoch, you always get the enemies you deserve...that´s all I can contribute to this. Without this bullshit "activism" from our side, trying to make "zoophilia" into the next gay, there would be no "anti zoo activism"...we actually created our enemies ourselves, with all we do, say and believe.
But you don´t have to take all of this from me, Rannoch. If you like, I could ask my ex rommmate Caikgoch may remember as gregordiesel from BF whether what I write here is true or not. And before you say that I try to influence you with a fake alternate account, no, I won´t do that because I´m better than that and don´t rely on lying. If you want, I will ask him to get in contact with you so you can hear it from another perspective...that´s all I can offer you to resolve your trust issues in my stories...
I really believe the thread should be about the different hobbies we have, and not another "acceptance" argument. Lets try going back on topic here, and make a separate thread in the appropriate place for acceptance debate based on hobbies. I enjoy reading what hobbies we have in common, and where some have odd or different hobbies. I draw no conclusions from them, nor should I as a hobby is just a hobby and the sampling size here is small.
My hobbies are many and diverse. I believe a strong mind and body are heavily related to the variety of our pursuits. A list of my most prominent hobbies:
Photography; writing; drawing; gardening; traditional woodworking and stoneworking; book collecting; computer building; hunting & fishing; wildlife rehabilitation; military history (gun collecting falls in here too); antiques; archaeology; tearing apart and rebuilding just about anything and many more.
My Vocation, as many know, is horses, their training and breeding. They are also my strongest hobby. I both ride and drive horses, and use them as draft animals in my farming and gardening pursuits.
I've learned in my short 55 years that any hobby can be enjoyed just as an interest grows, by reading and studying if finances forbid more, by creating your own if buying is impossible etc. Many times your hobby may become your job, and you get to earn by what you love. Always grow your interests.
sw
Quote:
On 7/19/2017 at 5:55 PM, caikgoch said:
I like fine old machines, the more powerful the better. Guns, cars, tractors, you name it.
Let me elaborate. NOBODY packrats more than a farmer. So why not have fun doing it?
|
