Very scared of the vegan movement. need some help to calm down.

[Unbreakable]

For those who may not know, there are animal rights organizations trying to abolish both companion animals and the consumption of meat. They are generally arrogant and are much like a religious cult.




These people are Peta, and various other animal rights organizations. They will stop at nothing to try to get other people to join them.




I'm very afraid of these people. Knowing zoophilia is taboo and should be kept a secret, these people seek to take away our right have our beloved animals altogether. They think all breeding is animal abuse, even when the animal doesn't suffer.




I have to have companion animals. I despise humanity as a whole, though not including the people on this forum, but I still need companionship. Humans cannot suffice for me after What I seen everything happen.




I understand almost no one takes these cultists seriously, but I cannot help but to scout around and make sure they don't get too many people.




If anyone can ease my anxiety towards this silly movement, then I would be grateful!




 

[heavyhorse]

You have to understand--




These are Big Business!  Multi-million $ corporations.  Their behavior harvests dollars.  Every time there's some public spectacle (which many seem like they engineered themselves) the donations come rolling in, tax free, to PETA, HSUS, their foreign counterparts (I understand there's a very powerful one in Germany).   It seems very unlikely that they are going to convert the entirety of humanity to veganism (MacDonalds is also a multimillion $ corporation), so animal production is pretty much here to stay, at least until they can grow GMO meat in a petri dish at similar volume and cost (how many people going to accept that?).  And I similarly doubt that all the little old ladies with fluffy anklebiter dogs or 200 cats are going to buy in either; the veterinary industry and pet products companies are similarly invested.  So money talks.  PETA et al will still be harvesting dollars, but there's more money in animals than in eliminating animals.  Like they say, follow the money.

[Eagle]

I know several zoophiles whom are vegetarian, some outright vegan.




Are there some bad people whom also happen to be vegan?  Sure, but that doesn't mean all are.




Do not fear someone merely because they have different views than yours.  Giving animals a regard as something more than mindless beasts whom exist solely for slaughter and our consumption should not be a perspective that is incompatible with zoophilia.

[30-30]

First of all, so there´s a bunch of people with an almost religious zeal to "convert" everyone else to ther radical beliefs, arrogant and sectarian. They even have some organisations openly trying to influence public discourse in every appropriate and inappropriate way thinkable. This group sees itself as "the bearer of the truth" and "the avantgarde", fanaticised, stubbornly fighting for goals that are totally not open for any compromise in any shape or form, and is incapable to see things through another mindset.....are you sure you´re talking about a bunch of radical veggies here? At least one other group which would absolutely qualify for a similar description comes into my mind. [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" title=";)" width="20" /> 




Regarding the PETA problem: Well, they won´t gain enough traction in society. They basically make the same mistake(s) a certain other group is making...they´re too radical and unwilling to compromise. Fanatical, irrational, often hypocritical, giving up their propagated ideals in an instant, revealing their real ulterior credo of "Der Zweck heiligt die Mittel"  (Purpose justifies all means) quite openly. I as a longtime non radical veggie am equally appalled by PETA and similar radicalists although I have many sympathies for the goal to cut down on meat consumption. Not only because I´m a zoo and therefor way more on the side of the animals, but simply because mankind cannot afford to go on with mass meat "production", polluting and destroying our planet. Meat consumption in the amounts of what today is seen as "normal" is draining resources we don´t have, it is only contributing to destruction of smaller farmers on the market ("Go big or go home" is the only way to survive in that business today) and is a crass matter of imbalanced food distribution because for every kilogram of meat, it takes truckloads of water, land and food for cows and pigs that are missing in other parts of the world. Meat consumption in the amounts of today will not only eat away on our own future, it is already eating away at the poorer earth region´s present.




There´s plethora of reasons to curb down on the meat consumption, all good ones, well thought through ones. I as a veggie would be happy if the majority would only readopt the form of meat consumption that was common a couple of decades ago, once in a week is enough to be healthy...many academics point out that with well based studies and research. Yoou don´t need to be a member of PETA and other eco terrorist groups to see that it´s unavoidable to reevaluate meat consumption and most of the veggies I know are similarly repulsed by those radicals without losing their ideals. What you´re so afraid of is a real small group of braindeads lost in their own ego, not vegetarianism itself or the majority of veggies. And as I said, the level of radicaity will make it impossible for them to gain enough traction in society. Many folks who otherwise would be open for debate on meat consumption are shutting down entirely when it´s visibly radicalised brickheads who are trying to "misssionise" them. Hmmm, could it be that moderate approaches are better than bathing in one´s own ego by demanding the world should readjust around a small splinter group´s "utopia"...?? [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" title=";)" width="20" /> 




Tl;dr: Nevermind PETA et al. They´re rather unimportant, except from their own perspective. The world won´t forcefully turned completely vegan by those groups...saying otherwise is nothing but a conspiracy theory. Yeah, they´re morons, but don´t let that distract you from the simple fact that mankind only has two choices...a) going on like this with all the meat and be extinct in the near future ( no fertile soil = no food, pest control killing bees = no natural reproducztion of plants = no fruits, no grain, no anything , in China, they even put the pollen where it belongs by hand in some regions where insects have almost died out!) or b) eating much less meat. 

[Unbreakable]

Thank you for the post 30-30. I don't eat hefty amounts of meat, though I do eat some due how nutrient dense it is. I just occasionally eat fish, chicken and rarely eat pork and beef.




My main concern is that the animal rights movement is trying to take our right away to have companion animals. They think having pets is immoral and should be stopped at all costs. This is what truly scares me about these people. I could go on a herbivore diet if I absolutely must, but I will never give up my family!




I don't believe in morality. I don't think its the same thing as doing good things or being concerned with other peoples or animals welfare. Many middle eastern nations think its moral execute gay people for who they are, even if it has no effect on their life's. Many African nations think its moral to kill albino people and feast on them because they think it gives health benefits.




Moral arguments like this can go on forever. I believe we should just be concerned about human and animal needs, such as don't physically or emotionally abuse them, help them if they need it and let and let live as long as they aren't hurting people/animals. Morals, just like religion are social shackles. They don't always mean good things and often just push people around with ideals which are bound to fail.




Many people like us need animals in our lives. I suffer from multiple mental illnesses, and being with my animals is the only thing that makes me happy.

[Eagle]

There are a lot of people whom identify as animal rights advocates, and I'm one of them.  Don't paint everyone with the same brush just because we have one thing in common.




"I believe we should just be concerned about human and animal needs, such as don't physically or emotionally abuse them, help them if they need it and let and let live as long as they aren't hurting people/animals."




Those are animal rights positions.  If you actually speak to promote them, you are part of the "animal rights movement."  Are you trying to take away your companion animal?

[30-30]

We had the same discussion on reddit and all I can say is the same I did on reddit...those species separatists woun´t ever get their ways. The natural place for DOMESTICATED animals is with humans...and can you really imagine all those dog- and cat owners will keep quiet and complacent when their animals are talen away from them? Hell, man, stop taking action movies for serious, this is real life, not "Equilibrum".

[Unbreakable]

@Eagle, The animal rights movement is about bringing domestic animals to extinction. That in itself is animal abuse, What if aliens came here, sterilized us and let us live the rest of our lives in happiness? That's exactly what these moralists want. They do have some good arguments against people who are animal abusers and I wouldn't ever tolerate anyone  do that, But people are abusing animals far less than they used to and things are getting better. One day, we will live in a world where our domestic loved ones will never be abused and can be bred and live without harm.




I should also note that zoophilia is far more taboo in the vegan community than meat eating. Some vegans even try to track the Ips of other vegans who are into zoophilia, thinking they are worse than meat eaters. Many zoos in the vegan community receive death threats and say your not a vegan. Very nice people in the vegan community I see.




@30-30, I feel better after you said that. My only concern left is if new laws would outlaw breeding. I don't think they would actually take our animals away physically, but they might lobby people in putting up laws that ban the breeding of companion animals, which means we will never be able to have loved ones after the next generation. If you can clear up this one last thing that's making me anxious, then would be extremely helpful.




 

[30-30]

Why would any government outlaw regulated breeding of animals that doesn´t violate animal wellbeing laws? Do you know how many mouths (human mouths) are fed by commercial breeding of animals? And that this would mean an end to ALL distinct animal races? Why would mankind just throw away the efforts of millennia, shaping all those different breeds people put so much efforts to breed into?  We´re talking about huge amounts of money here...sad to say , but money will save animals from becoming banned from the human habitat. There´s juust too much cash involved in this. And that´s why the scenario you painted will never happen...not anywhere in the world and especially not in those countries following the capitalis economic system. You would render a massive amount of people into unemployment with that...plus all of those who are their customers or otherwise involved in animal breeding. As I said, don´t take it too serious, this is reality, not a dystopian movie we´re living it.

[heavyhorse]

18 minutes ago, Unbreakable said:




My only concern left is if new laws would outlaw breeding. I don't think they would actually take our animals away physically, but they might lobby people in putting up laws that ban the breeding of companion animals, which means we will never be able to have loved ones after the next generation. If you can clear up this one last thing that's making me anxious, then would be extremely helpful.

Money.  




People pay a couple thousand $ each on the coasts for industrial-produced pets.  State-wide public votes have tried to put the industrial puppy mills (one mill produces 80,000 puppies/year) out of business, only to have the legislature come along and overthrow the public vote.  (This is for example only, certainly not condoning this).  With this kind of money and political power, you aren't going to see breeding banned.  




Which of course doesn't even address the "cottage" breeders.  How successful has "outlawing" pot production been?  Can you not buy pot on pretty much any street corner?  "They" have been trying for years to force S/N, all they have succeeded in doing is you can't get intact animals from "rescues", "society", pounds, etc.  You think people with 2 dogs are going to not breed because "they" make a law?  Worst case you will have to drive into the country backroads and pay more, like buying moonshine.  (Yes, that's still a thing.  How well has outlawing that worked?)  Again, follow the money.