09-28-2019, 08:25 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-28-2019, 08:34 PM by WinterGreenWolf.)
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2 hours ago, silverwolf1 said:
My own opinion is that the dog is not sexually AND emotionally mature before 1 1/2 to 2 years. They can indeed engage in heavy sexual behavior before this, but that doesn't mean they should. The dog doesn't know not to go beyond learning about his/ her body and hormones slowly, but the human ought to be responsible enough to control his lust ( because it certainly isn't anything "zoophile") and not let the dog do so. This "in nature" stuff is crap. The Domestic Dog does not live in nature and is behaviorally different from wild canines. Unless you're referring to Huskies, most won't even survive & reproduce "in nature".
Sorry Silverwolf, but I have to disagree strongly with the 'nature is crap' sort of statements.I won't go in to details with that here, as it's mostly personal bias.
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2 hours ago, caikgoch said:
There is one thing that must be absolutely clear. Humping is a reflex and can be triggered almost from birth but has nothing to do with sex. If you think he is interested in sex because he humps, you are mistaken. His penis will not be fully developed and when the knot begins to grow, it will hurt. Mother Nature doesn't care because he may be his bloodline's only chance but he will. He will grow up associating sex with pain.
This is true, and why I say you REALLY shouldn't do anything sexual at a young age..
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59 minutes ago, heavyhorse said:
What I said appears to have been interpreted in various ways by various people. It is not my intent to argue. I stand by my earlier post.
Same here.
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8 minutes ago, DingoJay said:
When I was young and clueless (20-ish) I got my first "my" dog. He was male. At quite an early age, he began humping and displaying a rather impressive erection, including a knot. Well before puberty. Of course, I encouraged this behavior and gave him a "helping hand" on a frighteningly regular basis. He never seemed antsy or distressed while I masturbated or sucked him; he always stayed right with me until he was finished.
It was all great fun until he got about halfway through puberty. He became quite aggressive, started marking in the house several times a day and picking nasty fights with the other male dog in the family. I was still living at home, and things got bad enough that it nearly came down to "Get rid of that dog or get out!"
As a last resort, I ended up having my pup neutered at about 8 months. I had been engaging in sexual behavior with the older male dog for several years without any undesirable side effects, but he was 3-4 years old when we started that. My parents had him neutered shortly after my pup was done. It took a little less than a year for the hormones to wear off and the bad behavior stopped and the boys became friends again. From what I've read and heard, I got lucky.
This is not a unique situation. After I got on the 'Net, I chatted with a guy who started having sex with a very young, male Rottweiler pup. The exact same scenario played out, in spite of the fact that I had warned the guy about what would happen if he continued. Around 7-8 months, the pup started peeing in the house and fighting with the other (male) dog. He gave the pup away, he was passed from home to home until somebody had him snipped.
Hopefully, someone can learn from my mistakes and not shit-can a nice pup because of their own out-of-control lust. I've had several dogs in the past 40-odd years since I got that first pup, but I have learned to keep my hands to myself for at least 1-1/2 to 2 years.
BTW, I continued having sex with the two neutered boys. They even encouraged me to do so and everything worked as designed, except there were no more fluids.
Quoted for Truth here: whilst not a GUARANTEED to result in aggression, fights, or problems.. It's more likely to happen if 'started' too early..
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1 hour ago, DingoJay said:
When I was young and clueless (20-ish) I got my first "my" dog. He was male. At quite an early age, he began humping and displaying a rather impressive erection, including a knot. Well before puberty. Of course, I encouraged this behavior and gave him a "helping hand" on a frighteningly regular basis. He never seemed antsy or distressed while I masturbated or sucked him; he always stayed right with me until he was finished.
It was all great fun until he got about halfway through puberty. He became quite aggressive, started marking in the house several times a day and picking nasty fights with the other male dog in the family. I was still living at home, and things got bad enough that it nearly came down to "Get rid of that dog or get out!"
As a last resort, I ended up having my pup neutered at about 8 months. I had been engaging in sexual behavior with the older male dog for several years without any undesirable side effects, but he was 3-4 years old when we started that. My parents had him neutered shortly after my pup was done. It took a little less than a year for the hormones to wear off and the bad behavior stopped and the boys became friends again. From what I've read and heard, I got lucky.
This is not a unique situation. After I got on the 'Net, I chatted with a guy who started having sex with a very young, male Rottweiler pup. The exact same scenario played out, in spite of the fact that I had warned the guy about what would happen if he continued. Around 7-8 months, the pup started peeing in the house and fighting with the other (male) dog. He gave the pup away, he was passed from home to home until somebody had him snipped.
Hopefully, someone can learn from my mistakes and not shit-can a nice pup because of their own out-of-control lust. I've had several dogs in the past 40-odd years since I got that first pup, but I have learned to keep my hands to myself for at least 1-1/2 to 2 years.
BTW, I continued having sex with the two neutered boys. They even encouraged me to do so and everything worked as designed, except there were no more fluids.
I Did Not Know This.
Although I have not done so, this is really good info to have, and re-enforcement to wait. Thanks!
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4 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:
I would like to add something to what I said above as well: every dog is different like every person is different.. Some mature faster, some slower.. There's really no 'fixed way' to tell for sure. It's also worth noting that 'age tests' and 'intelligence tests' can place canines at a massive disadvantage when the numbers are concerned as the tests aren't designed for them, they were designed for humans.
Yeah, pretty much this.. Let's not forget, sex for the 'younger ones' will be possible, 100% without harm: just awkward as hell as they are trying to learn the 'mechanics' of it all. Never forget, a non-humans' perceptions and outlets on such matters are VERY different to our own..
I know it sounds 'back and forth' but what I, and HH then said are pretty much the only answers really 'fitting' here (IMO, of course). I saw you mention consent, remember consent for them is different: it possesses different contexts and weights.. You also have to remember in the wild, these sort of behaviors would either..
A) Lead to actual reproduction (even at an early age)
B) Are practice for reproduction in a competitive environment where survival is priority #1.
Sort of a sum-up.. I'd say tell him he probably *shouldn't* be engaging in anything beyond a simple hump or two.. Maybe not even that depending on the exact age of the dog.. The major caveat here being that it depends on how fast the dog's maturing, how comfortable he is with said contact, etc..
Not great at using quotes, edited out the unimportant parts, I believe.
Sure, all age at slightly different rates. But an 8 month is undoubtedly still a "child". There's no 8 month old dog with the brain or body of an adult, at least of this breed. Some small breeds age faster, I think? And no one mentioned age or intelligence tests. The point was the dog at this age is the rough equivalent as a 12 year old (I was a bit off when I said 10). They are still an adolescent and have just started going through puberty. They are no where near an adult. That is really the only comparison made.
Comments from after yours suggest sex with "younger ones" cannot be done without harm. And sure, their (dogs') perspectives are different. But the fact remains they are still developing as individuals - they aren't making the decision as a full adult, their "full self", really. While before this thread I didn't believe any real mental harm would come from it (now I'm aware that it seems that it does), it just seems... off to engage with them while their mind is still developing.
As far as the consent statement, see above. The fact they aren't "fully there" so to speak makes it seem wrong to me. There is no real place for discussion of the wild, either, in my mind, as this isn't a wild dog. And while I am unaware of the mating habits of feral dog populations, I do know that the dog's closest relative / ancestor, the wolf, doesn't begin breeding until 2 to 3 years old.
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4 hours ago, silverwolf1 said:
My own opinion is that the dog is not sexually AND emotionally mature before 1 1/2 to 2 years. They can indeed engage in heavy sexual behavior before this, but that doesn't mean they should. The dog doesn't know not to go beyond learning about his/ her body and hormones slowly, but the human ought to be responsible enough to control his lust ( because it certainly isn't anything "zoophile") and not let the dog do so. This "in nature" stuff is crap. The Domestic Dog does not live in nature and is behaviorally different from wild canines. Unless you're referring to Huskies, most won't even survive & reproduce "in nature".
sw
Thanks for the reply. My opinion is very similar to yours, and I'm glad to see I'm not alone.
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4 hours ago, caikgoch said:
There is one thing that must be absolutely clear. Humping is a reflex and can be triggered almost from birth but has nothing to do with sex. If you think he is interested in sex because he humps, you are mistaken. His penis will not be fully developed and when the knot begins to grow, it will hurt. Mother Nature doesn't care because he may be his bloodline's only chance but he will. He will grow up associating sex with pain.
Didn't know this. Thank you for the info. May bring it up to him but he's brushed off my concerns before, so I am sure he will again.
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2 hours ago, heavyhorse said:
What I said appears to have been interpreted in various ways by various people. It is not my intent to argue. I stand by my earlier post.
Thank you.
Didn't really mean that in an argumentative way - I honestly cannot tell what your opinion is. As you say you agree with WinterGreenWolf, but then go on to state facts / opinions that near completely conflict with his. I'm able to gather just about nothing from your post, perhaps just due to my own information processing issues. If you don't wish to clarify, that's your right, I suppose.
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1 hour ago, DingoJay said:
When I was young and clueless (20-ish) I got my first "my" dog. He was male. At quite an early age, he began humping and displaying a rather impressive erection, including a knot. Well before puberty. Of course, I encouraged this behavior and gave him a "helping hand" on a frighteningly regular basis. He never seemed antsy or distressed while I masturbated or sucked him; he always stayed right with me until he was finished.
It was all great fun until he got about halfway through puberty. He became quite aggressive, started marking in the house several times a day and picking nasty fights with the other male dog in the family. I was still living at home, and things got bad enough that it nearly came down to "Get rid of that dog or get out!"
As a last resort, I ended up having my pup neutered at about 8 months. I had been engaging in sexual behavior with the older male dog for several years without any undesirable side effects, but he was 3-4 years old when we started that. My parents had him neutered shortly after my pup was done. It took a little less than a year for the hormones to wear off and the bad behavior stopped and the boys became friends again. From what I've read and heard, I got lucky.
This is not a unique situation. After I got on the 'Net, I chatted with a guy who started having sex with a very young, male Rottweiler pup. The exact same scenario played out, in spite of the fact that I had warned the guy about what would happen if he continued. Around 7-8 months, the pup started peeing in the house and fighting with the other (male) dog. He gave the pup away, he was passed from home to home until somebody had him snipped.
Hopefully, someone can learn from my mistakes and not shit-can a nice pup because of their own out-of-control lust. I've had several dogs in the past 40-odd years since I got that first pup, but I have learned to keep my hands to myself for at least 1-1/2 to 2 years.
BTW, I continued having sex with the two neutered boys. They even encouraged me to do so and everything worked as designed, except there were no more fluids.
Thanks for your input. Very interesting anecdote. Haven't heard of starting young causing behavioral issues before, but it does make sense (to me, at least).
It probably seems like I'm "arguing" quite a bit for someone just looking for opinions. But despite almost wanting my mind changed, it just can't be done without supporting reasons. If it is okay for the puppy to be touched sexually, I of course want to know why.
Seems though that most agree it isn't alright, which is pretty much what I thought. If there's more comments to be made, I'd still love to hear them.
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2 hours ago, DingoJay said:
When I was young and clueless (20-ish) I got my first "my" dog. He was male. At quite an early age, he began humping and displaying a rather impressive erection, including a knot. Well before puberty. Of course, I encouraged this behavior and gave him a "helping hand" on a frighteningly regular basis. He never seemed antsy or distressed while I masturbated or sucked him; he always stayed right with me until he was finished.
It was all great fun until he got about halfway through puberty. He became quite aggressive, started marking in the house several times a day and picking nasty fights with the other male dog in the family. I was still living at home, and things got bad enough that it nearly came down to "Get rid of that dog or get out!"
As a last resort, I ended up having my pup neutered at about 8 months. I had been engaging in sexual behavior with the older male dog for several years without any undesirable side effects, but he was 3-4 years old when we started that. My parents had him neutered shortly after my pup was done. It took a little less than a year for the hormones to wear off and the bad behavior stopped and the boys became friends again. From what I've read and heard, I got lucky.
This is not a unique situation. After I got on the 'Net, I chatted with a guy who started having sex with a very young, male Rottweiler pup. The exact same scenario played out, in spite of the fact that I had warned the guy about what would happen if he continued. Around 7-8 months, the pup started peeing in the house and fighting with the other (male) dog. He gave the pup away, he was passed from home to home until somebody had him snipped.
Hopefully, someone can learn from my mistakes and not shit-can a nice pup because of their own out-of-control lust. I've had several dogs in the past 40-odd years since I got that first pup, but I have learned to keep my hands to myself for at least 1-1/2 to 2 years.
BTW, I continued having sex with the two neutered boys. They even encouraged me to do so and everything worked as designed, except there were no more fluids.
I did not know this either. Thank you. My personal feeling, with nature aside as to what they are capable of and when, sexually speaking, is that if the animal is not considered full grown and/or adult (taking into account breed), I should not be engaging in any sexual activity.
I say if this person is doing something sketchy <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/profile/4116-fanta/?do=hovercard" data-mentionid="4116" href="<___base_url___>/profile/4116-fanta/">@ Fanta</a>, tell them the new information you've found: don't give up unless it seems totally hopeless, not for you but for the dog..
I wish you the best of luck with this situation and hope it all works out well.
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9 minutes ago, WinterGreenWolf said:
I say if this person is doing something sketchy <a contenteditable="false" data-ipshover="" data-ipshover-target="<___base_url___>/profile/4116-fanta/?do=hovercard" data-mentionid="4116" href="<___base_url___>/profile/4116-fanta/">@Fanta</a>, tell them the new information you've found: don't give up unless it seems totally hopeless, not for you but for the dog..
I wish you the best of luck with this situation and hope it all works out well.
Thank you. I'll likely just show him this thread instead of trying to reason with him (again) myself. Hopefully he will change and do what's right for his little shepherd.
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53 minutes ago, Fanta said:
Thank you. I'll likely just show him this thread instead of trying to reason with him (again) myself. Hopefully he will change and do what's right for his little shepherd.
Just remember, he'd need an account to see the forum.. You can't see threads anonymously.
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7 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:
Just remember, he'd need an account to see the forum.. You can't see threads anonymously.
Actually, guests can see threads.
sw
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13 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:
Sorry Silverwolf, but I have to disagree strongly with the 'nature is crap' sort of statements.I won't go in to details with that here, as it's mostly personal bias.
Your choice, and you have a right to your personal bias. Mine isn't personal bias.
sw
Well, like anything else, dogs are known for being trained. You have to start at their pace. Yes they may be able to learn quickly, but I think it's a good idea to let the dog initiate interest.
Stick to 1 to 2 years depending on the signs your dog shows when interested in actual sexual activity. I think, for ease of mind, it'd be a good idea to have a dog close to a female in heat for the first time exposure to sex. Just to see normal canine behavior for yourself first hand. Females can sense instincts, something not all educated humans may know off hand. So if you can arrange it, you know what level they're ready to take on at that time in their life.
Generally 3 years marks the mature period in dogs of all ages. Take the ratio of dog years, and multiply them by 7 for every human year. So a 1 human year old dog would be about 7 dog years old. In every species it's different, as the number of years for example for cats, would be 8. That's been the theory going around for awhile, and it may help you to know that in the first stages of sexual excitement, dogs actually are scared with the changes in their body. That's why it is recommended to wait more years until they are used to them to show initiated interest.
To answer your question, 6 months is far too young. On Beast Forum, the general accepted age for first interest would be when the dog in dog years becomes 18. Which would be in human years, 2.5 years (912.5 days) old. For every 365 days for a human year, at a rough estimate, I'd say a dog turns another year older every 52 days. In my opinion, waiting until 3 years would be preferable where you don't have to worry, which is where all the puberty stuff will have disipated if the dog is properly socialized around both other canines and other environments. I swear a lot of domestic dogs protectiveness comes from the inability to balance out aggressive energy with passionate energy. So when normal every day personal activities gets interrupted, the dog sees it as a threat rather than a chance to continue after waiting. Of course, you can't breed impatience or non instincts out of dogs, but you can teach them how to behave around others better when they recognize what to do when encounter more unknown things in their life. Isolation for any species hurts them the most.
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